Tommy,

Love the podcast. I've just put my wood shop back together after keeping it in storage for a few years, but space is a major problem. Imagine a band saw, table saw, router table, drill press and jointer in a 9 x 11' room along with my furnace and hot water heater!

Anyway, seeing your show on tuning planes inspired me to purchase my first block plane -- a Lie Nielsen low angle rabbet. I've seen the light and want to buy a smoothing plane next. Besides the greater satisfaction, I'm thinking that working more with hand tools will help solve my space and dust issue.

Can you tell me more about how you use your planes as an alternative to sanding? What types of planes and scrapers do you use to prepare your projects for finishing? I assume you use a cabinet scraper after you plane? Do you still use sandpaper after that?

You can imagine what happens I fire up the random orbital sander in a 9 x 11" room. I'd like to be done with it and send the damn thing to Al!

Thanks for your help,


Kevin

9X11...plenty of space.....guys lets try to save kevin some $$...you dont need to spend 2-3-500 hundred bucks for a great tool.....i know i did but i bought them over 10 years as a gift to myself ..but i think i could have put that money into a more useful place.....but anyway i need you guys to chime in on all the different uses for your planes...i will jump in tonight i just wanted to say welcome and ask if you will be joining us on the crazy leg table....its gonna be allot of fun....

Kevin,

I'm no expert like the Chizz, however, from what I have learned over the years is that everyone has an opinion of what planes to own. The say Allen Peters uses a #7 for everything. If you listen to David Charlesworth, he favors a #5 1/2 as his go to plane. Of course he recommends have a good block plane, such as the LN you have.

Here is my two cents. I have refurbished old planes and now only acquire LN's. Here is my reasoning, it is difficult to find a good Bailey style at a cheap price any more they are well sought after by collectors, then you typically need to replace the blade and chip breaker, and the effort to tune the sole, the mouth. After all that it will perform almost as good as a LN and you will have almost as much money into it. Again this is only my opinion.

Chuck

I think that one misconception about woodworking is that it REQUIRES a lot of expensive specialty planes and other tools. I just have a stanley #4 that I use for everything and a clifton 410 shoulder plane for fitting tenons.

As far as surface prep, I plane whatever I can. If there's tear-out or the grain is crazy, I scrape. After planing or scraping, I sand everything by hand to "unify" the surface, so there are no visible inconsistencies. The better the surface looks after planing, the less sanding I do.

Eli

NBSS Student

yo kevin...what i did when i was starting out was i bought a stanley for like 40 bucks....its really all you need ....that and a #8 or#7 i use those allot because i like to work wide boards ...i bought a low angle ..i never use it...i have a low angle block...never use it.....i bought a few of the LNs ...its a whole bunch of monet you dont need to spend....i wish i didnt...i have a good shoulder plane too....but again just buy what you need....LEARN HOW TO SHARPEN CORRECTLY!!!! and learn how a plane works....like movement on a frogg....save you money ...you gonna need it to buy the wood for the next project!!!!

I don't have anyghing to say about trains and automobiles, but on planes..ahh...I can discourse for hours.

I counsel people that most planes will not work properly out of the box. The exception being the lie-nielsen and other higher end planes. If you want to understand how a plane works and what it takes to get it to optimum operating conditions I suggest buying an older good quality plane or an inexpensive new plane and tune it up. After spending hours lapping the sole and blade back you will appreciate the quality and tolerances of a LN plane. These planes are good to practice your plane blade and chip breaker sharpening and honing techniques on, especially if you want to practice cambering a bench plane blade. Taking a plane a apart and understanding how it works and what it takes to keep it operating optimally is invaluable. You can find lots of how-tos on line or in plane books. If you subscribe to finewoodworking.com you can download articles and videos (see authors like Chris Schwartz, Mario Rodrigez, Garret Hack, Chris Gochnor, David Charlesworth to name a few). And once you master the techniques and realize that a LN out of the box is ready to go, you will appreciate it more. I can talk about the qualities of a LN plane that set them apart from the current day wanna bes and the older Stanley's, but I'll leave that for another discussion. Also, this is the plane you can lend your non-woodworking friends when they want to borrow a plane.

Deciding which planes to get depends on a person's work habits. My top four planes would be the following:
1.) A low-angle adjustable mouth block plane. A great all around plane that is great for general shaping, chamfering and end grain trim.
2.) A bench plane for general jointing and smoothing. A #4 or #5 depending on what you are most comfortable with. My preference is for a #4.
3.) A shoulder plane if you do any M&T work. The size again is dependent on what is comfortable for you and the scale of the work that is done. Your LN rabbet plane would be a good substitute here and also a general block plane substitute although it won't work very well on end grain because of the standard cutting angle of 45 degrees and the fixed open mouth of the sole.
4.) A #7 or #8 if you will be jointing smoothing long/wide boards and panels. This is a great tool to have if you can fit in your budget.

I pretty much have a full stable of planes - lots of LNs, Veritas, vintage Stanleys, Records, and planes I've made. I am particularly fond of my LN 102 which I keep holstered in my belt while in the shop. It is light and real handy for a quick trim or chamfer. Another plane that I go to a lot is my LN 162 low angle smoothing plane. Extremely fine shavings and finish and it is especially forgiving in highly figured stock like curly maple. It also makes an excellent shooter.

So I would start with a couple of basic tried and true planes and expand your tools as you develop increased skill and confidence and then you can determine which other planes best fit your woodworking style and projects.

So that's my 2 cents. I'm sure some of the other forum guys will have a differing opinion. So guys let it rip and voice up.

Ken aka walnutbeagle

hey ken... Why do you like low angle planes so much ... The lower the angle the less difficult the wood is.... I know the higher angle planes are designed for difficult grains.... And I think there isn't a real big difference between 4 and 5. 51-2 plus those ln are really expensive I know they are well built and are the bench mark for a great tool ... But I still think for a guy or gal who may get into this great hobbie of ours and I just want to let them know like you said that its time behind the tool that matters the most.. Then... Maybe they can get their honnies to get" the caddy of cut" for Christmas .... But I gotta say I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on planes .... You like the caddy of cut thing I just made up..... I am GOOD... : )

Thanks for all the help guys. It's much appreciated and fun to read.

I do have a basic set of hand tools — dovetail saw, chisels, scrapers, etc. I use Japanese waterstones for my sharpening and have worked up a set of chisels from "scratch", so I understand the process. In fact, that's one of the reasons I went with the LN plane. My time is limited, so I'd rather spend it cutting wood that wearing down iron! In the past I've always grabbed the power tools first. The podcast is great inspiration to improve my hand tool skills.

Tommy--I'm going to watch the table project from the sidelines. I'm in the middle of some home remolding projects and just need to bear down and get through them. I'll jump in on the next one!

Tom:
My 4 1/2 HAF plane is also a great smoother and yes it decreases tear out on figured grain. However, I find that with the increased frog angle, there is a corresponding increase in resistance and therefore a requirement for greater effort to push the plane across the wood. The low angle smoother and jack plane have the plane bevel up (just like a block plane). This is why low angle planes cut end grain easier and cleaner than the 45 degree (and higher) planes. This is especially true in a wood like pine that are prone to tearing. Try end grain trimming or shooting some pine with some different planes. The low angle planes give the best results.

The 62 and 164 also have the feature of an adjustable mouth, allowing for a quick adjustment and control of your shaving. I find the low angle smoothers to produce excellent results with less effort than say a 4, 4 1/2, 5 or 5 1/2 with a high angle frog. While you can move the frog to adjust the mouth between the sole and blade, it is a lot easier and quicker to adjust the 62/164. While I have used my standard bench planes to shoot endgrain sucessfully, I think the 62/164 do it better (admittedly a totally subjective assessment - I haven't done the electron microscopy measurement on the end grain - sure wish I was back in the lab, that would be tomorrow's task). I do a lot of curly maple work and I tend to grab the low angle smoother before the bench plane HAF plane. My bias and work habit have pushed me in that direction.

I don't necessarily recommend that everyone go out and get a 62 or a 164. But when I demonstrate the 62 smoothing capabilities at the store, customers are truly amazed at the result - baby bottom smooth surfaces that do not need sanding or scraping. And after smoothing a board I pass around the gossamer shavings and have them read a newspaper through the transparent, full-blade width shavings. It is an eye-opener for all those who have had bad to horrible plane experiences.

Sorry for being long winded, but here's my 2 cents.

I started off with planes by buying refurbished stanley sweetheart era bench planes. I think my first was a #4 for smoothing, then a #7 for jointing straight edges, and filled in the gaps by picking up a #3, which I rarely use, a #5 which I use for finish carpentry mostly out of the shop (like planing doors) and a #5 1/2 which I use in the shop like a #5 but which has more heft. I use my 4 1/2 on every project I touch even if it will eventually be painted because I find its the right width and cut and I use it like a block plane but with more control. I didn't really need it, but I have been admiring Lie Nielsen planes over the years so I got a LN 4 1/2 for Christmas. So far, I haven't used it much because I don't want to accidentally put a scratch in the bottom or whatever, but I'll pull it out on this mahogany crazy leg table no doubt.

As far as block planes, I own about 5 or 6 of them and they range from cheap old Stanleys to my two best-a LN low angle rabbeting plane which I reach for almost every time I need a block plane or a Lee Valley low angle block plane. I don't know what it is about the Lie Nielsen one, but I always get a great cut with it, wheras I continually fuss, readjust etc with the LV one so I end up not using it as much.

I've heard it said that block planes are carpentry tools for use out of the shop. When I need control and the planing is going to show, I always reach for a bench plane.

I also have several shoulder planes. One is a medium LV and the other is a Record 311. After seeing Philip Lowe use one in various videos, I tracked one down on Ebay. I see why he likes his. I like everything about it.

None of these tools will cut very well until you are able to sharpen and keep them tuned up. I'm lazy and skipped over learning by buying a lapsharp unit. It was expensive but it was one of those pay it one and don't look back kind of purchases that I haven't regretted. Another one like that will be when I buy a vacupress rather than spending the time to chase down parts to cobble together something. I'm young and some things aren't worth the time it takes to reinvent. If you have the money, and you're not taking food out of your kids' mouths, if you pick up a 4 1/2 and a 7 Lie Nielsen, you will get good quality no regrets tools that you will get good dependable use out of, and if the time comes to sell them off, you'll get your money out of them. To me, that's value.