Hi Tomh,

I’m at the end of my worry rope and I would greatly appreciate either some reassurance or direction. The information you provide on this board illustrates you really know your stuff. I could really use your wisdom.

Here’s the situation. Me, my wife and our toddler son moved into our new home last July. About 6-8 weeks before we moved in (while we were still shopping for a home) either the legal owner (true owner died, property was part of an estate) or the real estate company got a contractor to re-do some of the kitchen. My best guess about the floor goes like this: there was linoleum glue on top of the vinyl asbestos tile. The VAT was glue to the subfloor with black mastic. I think the guy tore up the linoleum and in the process also tore up the VAT because the linoleum was glued to it. He then either left what was left of the VAT on the subfloor, pried up the rest, or sanded it. I really have no way of knowing. The exposed mastic that I did see did not appear sanded, but who knows. I’m no expert. He then put down grout and ceramic tiles.

Here’s how I deduced all this. He did a lousy job tiling the floor with the ceramic tile. There were many corners under the baseboard heat and in the pantry where there were loose pieces of the VAT that he never bothered to clean up. The pieces ranged from half dollar sized to pinhead sized. They were all hard and not easily crumbled by hand pressure….but of course the tiles were not intact. I know the pieces are VAT because there is an unused labeled box of intact VAT in the attic that exactly match. Also I know linoleum had covered the VAT because my wife remembers seeing it the first time we looked at the house before the guy tore it up plus there is still a linoleum/VAT sandwich under one of the cabinets.

Well I didn’t realize all this until early February when I looked under the heat and put 2 and 2 together. Once me and my wife realized all this we called her brother (industrial engineer), her father (civil engineer), and my brother (home builder/renovator). None of them were half as frightened as I was, which gave me a morsel of comfort (but only a morsel). Her brother said some of the same stuff I’ve heard you say on this board….that the VAT is somewhat less likely to release fibers than other materials when broken because the asbestos is bonded into the matrix. My brother told me I’d be amazed at what he sees every day on the job related to mishandling ACM during renovations….that it’s so much more common than people realize.

Their advice was as follows: wait until a warm day and open all the windows. Pick up all the big pieces by hand and dispose. For the rest, vacuum with a vacuum with hepa filter. Throw everything out. Cover the uncovered mastic and tile with either grout or sealer.

Here’s what we did last week on the first warm day we’ve had. We sealed up the kitchen with plastic. We disposed of the big pieces. We vacuumed up the rest with Ridgid wet dry vac with cleanstream hepa filter. This particular vac has a blow hole for a leaf blower, so I also hooked up a hose to that blower and stuck it far out the window to as much as possible create an up and out air process. We hosed out the vacuum after. We cleaned every inch of the kitchen with wet rags and mops. We grouted the tight areas with exposed mastic and double coated with sealer the more open areas (like under the oven). I sealed up every inch of that floor tighter than a drum. I am confident that the mastic and whatever VAT are left are fully encapsulated with the combination of the ceramic tiles, grout, and sealer. After we were done we threw everything into proper bags (including our clothes, rags, hepa filter, pieces, etc) and properly disposed at the appropriate landfill the next day. Also, the whole time we were wearing masks equipped with two p100 filters each. We also showered. We also thoroughly cleaned the entire house. Both we and our home were probably cleaner than ever, I suspect.

The thing is, I’m still worried. I worry about my toddler son, who has spent many hours playing in the kitchen. I understand the floor tear-up was done a full 6-8 weeks before we moved in, but who knows how much loose fiber this guy left. We had the house thoroughly cleaned before we moved in, but obviously not thoroughly enough since there were still VAT pieces in the hard to reach areas. My wife is unconcerned because she was reassured by her engineer brother and father that since our son was not breathing in the dust while the contractor was tearing it up, his exposure was minimal…..plus the asbestos bonded in the matrix thing both you and he mention.

I saw your response to one boarder where you advised him to thoroughly clean his house rather than pay for tests that were likely to be inconclusive given that some stray fibers are everywhere, including outside. Given my situation, do you also feel the same way?

I understand the concept of relative risk. I’ve heard you say on here that asbestos relative to other daily dangers is pretty small. Still, I worry about my son because he is so young. What kind of risk are we really talking about for someone like my son, who is so very young? I don’t know.

I appreciate any information you can provide.

Thanks so much.

Chris

Hi Again Tom,

One more question. I have the guy's name who did the floor tear up. I'm wondering if I should report his slipshod work to somebody. My brother says he has called it in occasionally in the past when he saw blatantly unsafe practices or insisted on abatement. Just a thought. I'm not looking to get anybody in trouble, but on the other hand I don't want this happening to somebody else. My thought is the guy was a lunkhead and didn't realize what he was doing.

Thanks.

Chris

Well, its been a while since I checked in at the forum, so apologies for not seeing your questions. With regard to your concerns, you have done all you can to eliminate the source of potential asbestos dusts from the renovation prior to your move-in. Continuing exposure seems to be a non-issue.

If I dwelled on all my past exposures, life would be less enjoyable. My judgement is that it is unlikely you or your family received any appreciable or dangerous exposures. You were not present when any dusts were airborne during renovation, and its unlikely that residues under the corners could have been disrupted to cause a problem. Your work practices and efforts are commendable. Good job.

Hope this can offer you some peace of mind. The types, dosage and duration of exposure just don't add up to significance from a toxicological point of view.