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tomz71ss

07:26AM | 11/20/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
ok, i broke thru the floor in a small area where it looked like water was coming up thru. well, much to my suprise it was nothing like i expected! looks like in a channel along the wall footer are two corrugated pipes [black plastic] probably 2-3" in diameter laying in/covered with a bed of crushed stone. they also don't appear to be perforated[sp?]. there was some 'standing water' under the spot i hacked out, so i poked a couple holes in the pipe to get the water out of the way so i could see what the heck i was looking at.

now, if these pipes don't have holes in them along the entire run, how'n the heck does it move the water away from the channel they sit in??

i have half a mind to just go along that entire wall and hack out the pipes and remove the stone and leave an exposed channel so the water can run freely to the sump.

at this point, i don't think a flush 't' is going to fix my issue, any ideas?

will try to post a few pic's of my dilemma here shortly.

thanks,

t

tomz71ss

07:39AM | 11/20/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
before i started [as usual, later than i wanted to]

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1061.JPG

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1063.JPG

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1066.JPG

any thoughts?

if the links don't work, let me know.

tomz71ss

09:10AM | 11/20/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
ok, after more 'digging', i found the end of the pipe that goes into the sump pump hole. i get the feeling who ever did this job was laughing all the way to the bank. in the picture of the two pipes, if you look to the left, that's the direction i went. i found that the pipe furthest away from the wall ends just a few feet to the left, and the closest pipe to the wall goes into a 'cob job' 'T' a few more feet to the left, one end of this 't' goes into the sump pump hole, the other dissappears under the floor, presumably to my floor drain in the center of the floor [at this point, haven't 'snaked' that yet]. now, here is the interesting part, the end of this 't' that goes to the pump hole, it can only be snaked in one direction, if i go from the sump hole towards the 't', it goes, if i go from the 't' to the hole, it gets stuck/jammed. now i'm only using a small snake [tiny really], and the one way it goes right thru. also of note, i totally removed the pipe closest to the wall, [from my initial 'break thru point', this pipe goes a few feet to the right and ends], after doing this, the water started to make a slow migration to the now opened up 't', but the water still isn't flowing as fast to the sump hole as i would think it would, the pipe is still 7/8th submerged in water.

the thing that has me a bit confused is the fact i can only snake that pipe in one direction.

i now have maybe an 8' long section of the floor hammered out, and wonder if i should continue all the way to the sump hole to see what the heck is going on with the one way snake-ability, and to see if the pipe is actually going downhill enough.

whew, i need a beer...

tomz71ss

09:33AM | 11/20/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
thanks, i hope to get this situated soon.

being an auto tech by trade, i'm used to seeing a schematic or some sort of diagram to follow how a system is layed out, this 'poking around in the dark' drives me nuts, lol. upside is my wife is impressed with the destruction i have managed to accomplish today, haha. i have a feeling when it's all done, with the help from here, i'll have a completely redesigned 'irrigation' system.

thanks again, and stay tuned for more pic's and developments........

tomh

10:18AM | 11/20/04
Member Since: 07/01/03
549 lifetime posts
Pretty impressive color you have in that hole! The drain pipe is probably made with lots of small slits to allow water to enter. Clean off the piece you removed and check it. Once its cleaned out, you can bend it into a U shape and fill it. Water should escape from the holes. That will tell you whether you have permeable tile. Judging from all the fines, its easy to imagine the drain holes are clogged. You might try feeding a hose with the water on from the sump drin into the perimeter pipe. That should clean out the pipe and might reveal if it is draining properly.

Replacing the entire perimeter would be a big job, but is a possible solution. If you choose to do so, I would replace that black flexible drain with a PVC line with holes (holes face the bottom. Also be sure to remove that contaminated drain rock and replace with washed drain rock. You can recycle some of yours if you can make a screen tub to hold the rock and you just wash off all the silt.

I hope Cellarwater stops by with a comment soon. Meanwhile, enjoy that beer. You're going to need it.

tomz71ss

10:49AM | 11/20/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
a DIY project like this doesn't bother me too much, i just set small goals throughout a project, and as i meet them, i set another goal to reach, as long as i can keep reaching my set goal, and it doesn't disrupt the daily 'flow' of my family, i'm ok. past projects include siding my garage, hanging entry doors, building a few decks on the house, installing carpet, minor wiring etc. the only difference in this little snafu is i'm not totaly sure of what my next step should be, i know what i want to do, but not sure if it's needed, or correct to do so. as i say, i usually have a game plan on what i want to get done, this is kind of a figure it out as i go type thing [with much head scratching, eye rolling, and the occasional cursing fit, hehe]. good thing this is only an issue along one wall.

luckily the beer is cold. if you folks like, i could bag up a little bit of that 'rich, red, plugging all my cellars innards' muck and send ya some [big smile here, wink].

cellarwater

03:54PM | 11/20/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
I'm sure the whole 6-pack is gone now! Feed the sump pump a couple....it will feel better!! [LOL ;)] That is a very reddish colored soil. Check the pipe grade going back to the sump it should a gradual slope down all the way, no hills. Water will always flow downhill. That pipe,replace it. as Tomh mentioned get the solid 4 inch swiss pipe. How is the crushed stone? if it's all clogged with silt dig it out wash it and if you need to get more. set at least 5inches depth of stone below the bottom of the pipe [ excuse me while run for a cold one;)] I'm back The stone can be purchased in bags at you know depot or you can call the local sand plant for a larger quantity. K2 how did you make out with that micropump for your crawl space?? I'll be back. C.

cellarwater

04:41PM | 11/20/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
Too bad it isn't gold! I wonder what state he is in. I'm in Mass. I think once I saw some colored clay. May be that is the material they cast bricks out of?? Interesting. I have my name in Greg's office for a moderator. He's busy but informed me he'll contact me soon. It would be an honor to get that position. The late Plumber Tom was the first to refer me [ We knew each other's e-mail adresses] He was helpful to me. Bless him. C.

tomz71ss

04:03AM | 11/21/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
well, no more digging today, have family things to do.

the beer did taste good though. and to answer your question, i'm located just outside of Syracuse NY.

ok, back to the subject, i'm concerned about digging the rest of this out, re-plumbing it and then dealing with the possibility of it all getting plugged up again. my main worry is due to the quantity of silt that finds it's way into the area. and i still don't quite get the logic behind how this was set up in the first place. like i said before, that one pipe just ended, and at the end was [is] just a pile of muck, and compounding that problem is the fact that my fuel oil tank is a foot or so away,[so i'm at the end of my dig in that direction] so if i get the 'trench' cleaned out and re-stoned, what do i do with the end of the pipe? or should i put my 'flush device' on the end of that pipe and have it come up thru the floor?

i'm also guessing that i need to continue the destruction all the way back to the sump hole [for peace of mind if nothing else], to make sure it is running downhill, probably do that after work monday. i'll put up a few more pic's after surgery so you can also see what i found.

thanks again folks,

t
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