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cellarwater

05:48AM | 11/21/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
You'll have a fresher mind when you come back to that project. Continue on as you described. & You'll be fine C.

tomh

07:34AM | 11/21/04
Member Since: 07/01/03
550 lifetime posts
If you replace the flexible tile with PVC drain pipe (3 or 4 -inch), the silt will not readily accumulate. You could also install a capped standpipe in the highest corner away from the sump. This could be periodiocally opened to flush the line. To prevent silt, consider installing a layer of landscape cloth on the bottom of the excavation. This is permeable to water, but will filter most sediments before it reaches the drain rock and drain tile.

Your idea to install a flush provision on the end of the pipe is excellent. Take a look at sanitary Tees or cleanouts that match the size of the drain pipe you install. The tee connects between two sections of drain pipe and has a long radius curve that you would install vertically. This would allow you to force water into the drain, and because of the long radius, would also allow the use of a snake.

Note that the pipe sections are held in place by the gravel and slab. They do not necessarily need to have glue welded joints. Most foundation drains are not glued to facilitate maintenance.

In terms of strategy here, prevention is better than dealing with the high water that causes the problem. Some form of exterior curtain drain or grading improvement seems to be in order to prevent water from reaching the foundation. Think about where water comes from. If you have a generally high water table, an interceptor drain and surface drainage will probably not help. In this case, dewater by dropping the sump invert to a lower elevation and create a cone of depression in your water table, below the footer. Punch out the base of the sump and dig it as deep as you can manually, backfill with 6-inches of drain rock and install your sump pump. Water will enter the sump from the ground as well as your perimeter drain. This should, in time, provide hydraulic gradient to the lowest point (sump) resulting in a lower water table under the house slab.

tomz71ss

02:12PM | 11/22/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
ok, i dug out a few more feet towards the sump pump hole tonight when i got home, and it looks like i have some uphill plumbing, enough so that i can actually see the difference in height from the 't' to where i have ended digging. to go any further, i need to move my washer and dryer, so i figure i'll have the wife do all the wash tomorrow while i'm at work, and then move those and continue my digging when i get home.

i think once i establish an actual continual downhill grade, i should be in good shape, then it's just a matter of putting it back together. with some luck, i'll have more destruction, err, progress pictures tomorrow night.

thanks again,

t

tomz71ss

02:18PM | 11/22/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
getting back to the water entry itself, i think we have a high water table [no one on the road has an actual 'dry' basement], and part of the old erie canal system is across the road from the place as well. the ironic part of this, is that the wall with the problem [or atleast where the problem ended up] is more or less shielded from most of the surface water [rain, snow melt, etc.], anyway, will have more info tomorrow.

t

cellarwater

03:05PM | 11/22/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
I'm glad you;re making progress with that drain. I'm sure when you get done you'll be advising your neighbors on draining their basements. Also when it's time for a beer too... C.

tomz71ss

05:33AM | 12/04/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
well, got nothing done since my last post, but am having at it again today. the upside so far is the water isn't running down my floor anymore, most of it is getting to the sump. going to complete the dig towards the hole today, and dig out more of the stone/sediment along the entire run then formulate my plan of attack to get it back to normal. naturally, this time of year money is tight, so the actual final repair is going to have to wait a bit, but the main concern is getting the water where it needs to be and the hole along the wall isn't going to bother anyone. will probably put up a few more pic's later.

thanks again for all the help so far,

t

tomz71ss

09:51AM | 12/04/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
ok, well i managed to go the rest of the way to the sump hole today. after i uncovered the pipe i found it looked like a rollercoaster, and the very end of it was going uphill!! now who'n the hell runs pipe like this? i also found the end of the pipe [just before the 'up swing'] had a fair amount of sediment in it [1/2 plugged]. i figured at that point i'd remove the pipe alltogether and work on atleast getting the water going downhill. well, lo and behold, as soon as i pulled that section of pipe out, the water started moving to the sump hole. i also had to chip out some of the concrete around the edge of the sump hole where the pipe exited to help with the downhill flow.

the last section of pipe i just removed is much bigger in diameter then the 'up hill' pieces i already removed, and has large circular holes along it for the water to get in. i also found that on the pieces i removed prior to this have small 'slits' in the convolutions of the pipe to let the water in [previously they looked 'solid' to me].

so, here's where i'm at, i have 90% of this wall length dug up and 'de-piped', and now have a somewhat downhill path for the water to get to the sump hole. as i was looking at the mess i have created, i noticed that the majority of the sediment [more like muck] is located to the right of the cobbed in T [pretty much at the end of my initial dig in the first pic's], there is no where near as bad a silt condition from the T to the sump hole [going to the left in the pic's], sure, it's there, but not as bad. so do you think the sediment pile up was caused by the up hill flow from the T on, or could the pile up just be an additional problem i have to deal with? [i understand due to the nature of this whole water entry situation sediment is to be expected, but it's extreme at the one end].

now so far i'm into this project for @ $12, plus the joy of hacking the floor up, as mentioned before, i'll have to wait untill after the holidays to actually purchase repair materials, but in the mean time, i want to dig out the rest of the stone and muck and try to salvage some of the stone [might as well, no sense in carrying it up the stairs]. i usually don't like to start something without the items needed to finish the job, but due to nature of the problem, i kinda had to wing it to prevent more damage to the cellar.

ok, now if i continue to remove the stones along the length of the trench i now have, how do i go about figuring the pitch needed from one end to the other to insure good water flow? i'm sure it doesn't take much, but if i don't ask, i'll go overkill and have a drop you could ski on.

i'm also thinking it may work out that i have to wait to purchase materials so i can clean out the mess in the trench, and see what kind of sediment issue results from having a 'free flowing' water path.

sorry for the novel, here are the other pic's,

the end of that pipe goes into the T

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1070.JPG

just past the T on it's way to the sump hole

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1069.JPG

on to the sump

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1067.JPG

the sump hole

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1079.JPG

1/2 of the not so downhill journey

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1078.JPG

well, that's where i'm at for now. let me know what you think, and any ideas you have.

thanks again for the help so far, and i hope you're getting as big a laugh out of this as i am,

t


cellarwater

03:53PM | 12/04/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
Great to see the new pic's. Looks & sounds like the project is coming along nicely! Did you use the masonry saw for the floor cuts? They look nice & neat. You're probably visiting Santa right now [ I wonder if elves can set drains?....] I'llstop by soon! C.

carl21l

06:26PM | 12/04/04
Member Since: 03/21/04
173 lifetime posts
.25 inch per lineal foot should be right for you

JMHO

Carl
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