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bpbassman

02:43AM | 07/27/06
Member Since: 07/26/06
2 lifetime posts
Bvbasement
Has anyone heard of the product sani-tred? The website claims it is the perfect waterproofer for inside the basement. It is a rubberized polymer that resists hydrostatic pressure. www.sanitred.com thank You.

KingVolcano

04:37AM | 07/27/06
Member Since: 03/03/05
273 lifetime posts
I have not tried that product, but please allow me to add a comment.

Water/hydrostatic pressure can be a real bugger to prevent. Your surface prep is the most important aspect of the project. If you do not have a proper profile and a clean, dry surface, no product will work.

Clean, open the pores and address cracks will a filler and you will start on the right track.

Unless you had your basement floor tested for hydrostatic pressure, you do not have a baseline. Again, hydrostatic pressure is a real bugger and it will find the weakest area and exploit it.


LicensedWaterproofer

10:53AM | 07/27/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


lets see, according to the Better Business Bureau, these guys have an 'unsatisfactory record' due to answered complaints.

they do NOT do waterproofing, but you go ahead and keep pushing.

Sanitred says Exterior Wall Waterproofing is NOT necessary and is a waste of time etc, lol. Now, thats a buncha crap!

Of course they say SHTT like this, they want unkowing folks to buy their Inside products.

Here, Sanitred, i`ll prove that you claim(s) are wrong,deceptive,etc. Have several estimates i just ran, hollow-block wall, all leak due to CRACKS on Outside of blocks. So, you send me yer products, i`ll apply them 'correctly/perfectly' and we`ll see how long it`ll keep water out.

Fact is, it will NOT!

ONLY way to stop/prevent water from entering cracks `n other openings on Outside of hollow-block wall is...from the OUTSIDE, lol.

And since it will not stop/prevent water from entering the block wall it`ll also NOT stop/prevent mold,mildew,efflorescence,radon gas, termites and other insects that Enter these SAME cracks.

It alos will Not and Cannot stop/prevent/lessen/relieve Hydrostatic `n lateral SOIL pressure that, AHEM, causes walls to Crack, leak, bow etc. Tree roots can also crack `n push against basement walls, wake up will ya please! And tell the TRUTH.

6th para.... http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp

http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH058_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

Some do not have a clue and ONLY wish to get into your savings account, THATS the truth.


bpbassman

11:32AM | 07/27/06
Member Since: 07/26/06
2 lifetime posts
Thanks for the info. I have read a variety of threads and such on this, as well as numerous articles and it seems as though handling the outside is the way to go. I live in Ohio..had Ohio State Waterproofing come and give me an estimate. A little pricey but seems worth it, as it adresses not only water from outside the walls but under the slab and footers etc. Anyone have any experience with this company?

LicensedWaterproofer

11:50AM | 07/27/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


...according to Better Business Bureau that Ohio State Waterproofing has 18 customer complaints in the last 36 months.

i`m not taking a big dump on them or anyone, just want to get ALL DA facts out here, no harm, just facts. Its the homeowners i give a shtt about, not these so-called experts. do what you like, its your home/money

search BBB yourself, punch in company and state and away ya go

http://search.bbb.org/

SaniTred

06:36AM | 08/10/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
It would seem that ‘Licensed/Waterproofer’ has some strong feelings that diverting exterior water is the ONLY thing to do in ALL basements regardless of all circumstances. That is an opinion which he is certainly are entitled to. Misinformation doesn't go unnoticed.

Licensed/Waterproofer states:

“lets see, according to the Better Business Bureau, these guys have an 'unsatisfactory record' due to answered complaints.”

When a customer applies Sani-Tred products on top of paint, tar or standing water against our instruction, it would be difficult for anyone to say “good job, you applied it correctly, I think it will work”. Those 3 individuals went off to the bureau to report how they FELT. Anyone in the USA can get on that bureau and say anything about anyone regardless whether or not it is true, hones or valid. The better business bureau has us listed 3 times as ‘unanswered’. We contacted the bureau, asked them “why it is listed as unanswered, we did answer, the materials were obviously improperly applied look at the photos”, they responded “it’s just a glitch in the system because we see all your responses and replies”. Oh well … what can ya do? I’d say 3 glitches are EXCELLENT for a 23 year track record. We also found out that if you pay your bureau dues, you don’t get written up. We don’t contribute to the better business bureau because they list positive results to systems that DO NOT WORK.

Licensed/Waterproofer states:

“Here, Sanitred, i`ll prove that you claim(s) are wrong,deceptive,etc. Have several estimates i just ran, hollow-block wall, all leak due to CRACKS on Outside of blocks. So, you send me yer products, i`ll apply them 'correctly/perfectly' and we`ll see how long it`ll keep water out.”

No problem and the basement would never see a molecule of water, but you need to calm yourself. I doubt that you truly understand how and why Sani-Tred products have a 100% success rate. I think you need to understand that YOU are the only person saying that we don’t approve of any exterior work. You of all people should know that there is a proper tool for each job. Sani-Tred products will not allow a single molecule of water, moisture, vapor or even problem radon to enter any basement in the world. That’s our job, we keep the water out. Drains relieve standing water which can reduce ‘negative hydrostatic pressure’ but can not truly WATERPROOF. Don’t you see? Drains move water, they don’t waterproof.

Licensed/Waterproofer states:

“It alos will Not and Cannot stop/prevent/lessen/relieve Hydrostatic `n lateral SOIL pressure that, AHEM, causes walls to Crack, leak, bow etc. Tree roots can also crack `n push against basement walls, wake up will ya please! And tell the TRUTH.”

Are you saying that lateral soil pressure can be solved with a drain or that WE SAY that a permanent flexible coating will? If the earth wants to push through a foundation, I’d say that you have bigger problems than waterproofing. Wouldn’t you say so yourself? If you have a tree root pushing through a foundation, how will even an absolutely permanent waterproof rubber coating stop it? The problem is the tree not water or Sani-Tred. What are you reading? Not our website. Why don’t you call our office and say that you have a “hollow block foundation, say that lateral soil pressure is heaving in your walls and tree roots are popping through”. Use your common sense; of course no one on this planet would just say “coat it and the roots will disappear, the earth will stop moving, and the ground will dry up”. Even in that situation, Sani-Tred products would waterproof it, but even Sani-Tred products have their limitations, 600% elongation is amazing, but not if a structure moves beyond the material’s flexibility. Those things are beyond anyone’s control; all the drains, coatings, pumps and dehumidifiers in the world can’t stop acts of god.

Where do we state that Sani-Tred products will eliminate, prevent, lessen or relieve hydrostatic pressure? www.sanitred.com

Dictionary Definition:

WATERPROOF - Made of or coated or treated with rubber, plastic, or a sealing agent to prevent penetration by water. Not permitting the passage of water. The proper term for material that completely keeps out water. Treatment of a surface or structure to prevent the passage of water under hydrostatic pressure. The process where a building component is made totally resistant to the passage of water and/or water vapor.

Exterior Drainage: Can be installed IF and only IF a home has enough slope to run water away. Inner city homes may not be able to do this at all. This can ONLY reduce ‘standing water’ surrounding the home. This will not dry up the earth. This can not stop moisture/vapor transmission nor eliminate problem radon. It certainly has its uses, no one in their right mind would refute this, but it can’t ‘waterproof’.

Interior Drainage: Can be installed inside of just about any home any time of the year. Encouraging water to enter a basement just to pump it back out again IS NOT WATERPROOFING. God forbid the electricity goes out while it rains, like that’s never happened before. Oh yeah, that’s what battery back up systems are for, back up pumps, replacement pumps, dehumidifiers, sheet materials behind finished walls … Nonsense, this does a whole lot of stuff, none of which is WATERPROOFING. Can anyone honestly say that this little pump is going to pump down the surrounding water table in every home every time? Can a pump stop 100% of all water, moisture, vapor and problem radon?

Exterior Coatings: Only seals the exterior of the wall down to the footer. Big deal … water, moisture, vapor and problem radon can still enter through the floor and the wall/floor junction. Exterior coatings only divert water to the ‘next least rout of resistance’.

Exterior Drains With Exterior Coatings: Great, you’ve eliminated standing water from around the home, sealed the exterior of the wall, but this still leaves the floor and wall/floor joint susceptible. Don’t blame us, we didn’t invent the laws of physics or the laws of nature. Even garage floors that are slab on grade suffer from ‘moisture vapor drive’ which is moisture wicking up through concrete against gravity. This natural force delaminates all other coatings.

Fact #1 - The truth is most of our customers have ALREADY installed gutters, downspouts, exterior and interior drainage to find that they don’t work like they assumed it would. The fact is none of the above STOP water, moisture, vapor or radon in its tracks just tries to redirect it. Think about it. It can’t waterproof.

Fact #2 - Sani-Tred products do permanently adhere and will never bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate or leak for the lifetime of the structure. I’m sorry to say nothing will stand up to ‘massive earth movement’ beyond the performance of the products. PermaFlex – 590% elongation and LRB – 600% elongation.

Fact #3 – If a Sani-Tred waterproofed home was lifted out of the ground and submerged 8’ deep, Sani-Tred products would not bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate or leak. No one is saying that it’s a good idea to have a home built in 8’ deep water. Statistics and test results are sometimes just numbers unless put into laymen’s terms. The fact is Sani-Tred products do withstand more negative hydrostatic pressure than can possibly occur in any foundation. That doesn’t mean 8’ of standing water is a good thing to have. Remember, the right tool for the right job. Our system will waterproof it 100%. Standing water will not just go away and we are not claiming that it will.

FACT #4 – The only way to positively waterproof 100% of the walls and floors is to treat 100% of the walls and floor that is below grade. This can never happen from the exterior.


LicensedWaterproofer

10:08AM | 08/10/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


i knew you`d try `n wiggle out of it

you are right about the BBB one way, IF one is a Member-pays the BBB then, yep, lets say they at least get preferential treatment & then some, No Doubt about that!

i will Prove Sanitred and other products applied on Inside are misleading and will Not stop/prevent water from entering a dang crack in a block wall. you do NOT have a 100% success rate ya nimrod but you go `head and keep pushing on, thats what you do well.

Hey, if ya have root(s) against the darn wall then, TAKING the ROOTS OFF the Wall, waterproofing the wall and backfilling w/peastone Relieves that.....Pressure.

did you finish 6th grade cuz, most 6th graders understand this for pete sake.

look man, dammittt, hey, lolol, after 28 years of exterior waterproofing and no customer complaints, unlike YOU and Other INSIDE co`s, i KNOW what works and what doesn`t.

Personally, i don`t know how some of you people sleep at night.

SaniTred

12:05PM | 08/10/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
LicensedWaterproofer States:

“i knew you`d try `n wiggle out of it”

Wiggle out of what? Licensed Waterproof, are you one of those 3 on the BBB? Just kidding. Seriously, I don’t think you understand how different systems can compliment each other. Exterior drainage does serve a purpose to reduce pressure if pressure exists among other things (as you crudely pointed out). Sani-Tred is a positive, flexible, permanently adhered, lifetime vapor barrier/radon barrier.

~ Keep in mind that I am not belittling you or anyone’s occupation when I ask this ~ How can you honestly say that moisture CAN NOT enter through a floor just because a drain is on the exterior? Please explain this to me. Everyone and I already know that moisture is always present under a slab.

LicensedWaterproofer States:

“i will Prove Sanitred and other products applied on Inside are misleading and will Not stop/prevent water from entering a dang crack in a block wall.”

I sincerely hope you are not saying that we tell people that when Sani-Tred products are applied to the interior of the foundation it will stop water/moisture from entering the exterior of the block itself. Sani-Tred products will guarantee that not a single molecule of water, moisture, vapor or even problem radon will ever enter the interior of the basement itself. If there is a crack on the exterior of the block, of course water can enter through the exterior of that crack, however nothing will ever enter the living space or behind finished walls. That’s the whole point and the purpose of Sani-Tred products.

You say ‘misleading’, what specifically is misleading? You copy/paste specifically what sentence is misleading and I will personally reword it if you’re correct. Nowhere do we say that we repel roots, stop the earth from moving or anything you are saying. You are trying to mislead others. Anyone should be able to see that.

LicensedWaterproofer States:

“Hey, if ya have root(s) against the darn wall then, TAKING the ROOTS OFF the Wall, waterproofing the wall and backfilling w/peastone Relieves that.....Pressure.”

I thought we already covered the whole root thing. Ha ha ha. Root removal is not our specialty.

LicensedWaterproofer States:

“look man, dammittt, hey, lolol, after 28 years of exterior waterproofing and no customer complaints, unlike YOU and Other INSIDE co`s, i KNOW what works and what doesn`t. Personally, i don`t know how some of you people sleep at night.”

I am not here to start a fight, calm down … You are saying that our company is making claims that we certainly ARE NOT. Do not take offense when I say that you are uninformed when it comes to these materials, you’re making assumptions, false statements and passing them along as facts. Just say that it’s your opinion.


LicensedWaterproofer

01:13AM | 08/11/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


misleading? ....well, lets start with

http://www.sanitred.com/waterproofing/basement_waterproofing/waterproofing_myths_vs_reality.html

YOU...state,supposed fact #1.....

"it is impossible to waterproof a basement from the outside"

This is what you say and correct me if i`m wrong, you do NOT do basement waterproofing-foundation work, right?

You DO SELL Products that are applied on the Inside of basements, right?

ok, back to YOUR supposed fact which YOU claim 'basements cannot be waterproofed from the outside'...this is a big load do-do

hey, most basement get water inside,on floor along cold joint/cove due to, cracks and other openings-crevices that are on the Outside. Um, so...knock knock...is there anybody IN there? To waterproof, to stop & prevent water from ENTERING one would need to go outside and waterproof,seal,tuckpoint,caulk etc these.....cracks and other openings in basement walls and ABOVE basement walls.

When one stops the water/moisture from entering and seals these openings then, they`ll also stop/prevent mold,efflorescence,radon gas, termites `n other insects which would otherwise, still be able to enter/grow if not waterproofed etc.

Quite a darn few basement walls BOW inward due to, lateral and hydrostatic SOIL Pressure that is against the outside of basement walls, tree roots can also cause cracks to WIDEN,bowing of walls so, ahem...knock knock, the ONLY way to take this Outside Pressure-roots off the walls is....from the Outside, lolol, geeeezuz!

This is accomplished by getting rid of the expanding-contracting SOIL, waterproofing the cracks/wall and, repklacing that Soil with gravel which provides the LEAST pressure against walls and provides FULL and IMMEDIATE Drainage along walls....ya follow? or is yer supposed common sense still stuck inside the basement and on the inside products you want to, NEED to sell...? huh lol

Any product you/others sell and want homeowners to apply on the inside of basement walls CANNOT take this Outside pressure off the dang wall(s). Ya gotta go outside to do this...grrrr. If you talk people into applying products on inside when their problem(s) are Outside then, you need to be held liable-accountable when their walls continue to bow, cracks widen,mold/efflorescence continues to grow on walls etc. If you truly are an expert then you would NOT have recommended a product(s) that cannot possibly solve their problems....got milk?

Lets see what OTHERS say/think about waterproofing Basement walls on the Outside and backfilling w/gravel-peastone, NOT damproofing.....i said Waterproofing.

can YOU read? then read 6th,7th para`s

http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp

do YOU fully Understand what they say?

http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH058_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

http://www.ottawastructural.com/treesfoundations.htm

http://radon.utoledo.edu/remedy_mech.html

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/physic.html#Character

http://fanninremodeling.com/floodbasement.pdf

i`ll post many more links from others, ya need em?

hollow block walls can deteriorate if YOU don`t stop water from entering outside cracks, take pressure off, is that what you are recommending to people?

and since many of us contractors who do exterior waterproofing have zero/no customer complaints over 25,30+ years, how do YOU figure your supposed #1 fact?

if its impossible to waterproof basements from the outside as you state then sure the shtt should mean we`d have been outta business a looong time ago/have hundreds of customer complaints etc.


SaniTred

12:12PM | 08/11/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
Sani-Tred:

It is impossible to 100% waterproof, moisture-proof and vapor-proof a basement from the exterior. Click on the link below, do you see anything to stop water, moisture, vapor or even problem radon from entering through the floor or the wall/floor junction (even with all the drains in the world)?

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/ExteriorCoating.gif

Once the walls, floor, joints, seams, cracks and holes have been simply sealed, there is absolutely no possibility for anything to enter. That means efflorescence, mold, radon etc…

Keep in mind I’m not talking about Drylok:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/cementiciousproducts.jpg

I’m talking about Sani-Tred products:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/PermaFlex.jpg

“Licensed Waterproofer” States:

This is what you say and correct me if i`m wrong, you do NOT do basement waterproofing-foundation work, right? You DO SELL Products that are applied on the Inside of basements, right?

Sani-Tred:

We provide the materials and APPLY them as well, though anyone can apply them whether it is the home owner, contractor, handy man or painter. Even you Licensed Waterproofer (that was a subliminal message).

“Licensed Waterproofer” States:

Quite a darn few basement walls BOW inward due to, lateral and hydrostatic SOIL Pressure that is against the outside of basement walls, tree roots can also cause cracks to WIDEN,bowing of walls so, ahem...knock knock, the ONLY way to take this Outside Pressure-roots off the walls is....from the Outside, lolol, geeeezuz!

This is accomplished by getting rid of the expanding-contracting SOIL, waterproofing the cracks/wall and, repklacing that Soil with gravel which provides the LEAST pressure against walls and provides FULL and IMMEDIATE Drainage along walls....ya follow? or is yer supposed common sense still stuck inside the basement and on the inside products you want to, NEED to sell...? huh lol

Sani-Tred:

Not every single basement on the planet suffers from all occurrences you mentioned. We DO NOT dismiss ALL natural forces that can exist. Put gravel out there if that is a serious concern. Like I said, most of our customers have already done exterior and/or interior drainage methods etc… and seek a permanent 100% method of eliminating ALL water, moisture, vapor, problem radon…..

Everyone knows what you do for a living, be proud of what you do. I just know that you can not guarantee that not a single molecule of water, moisture, vapor or problem radon can enter a basement. That is why I said I don’t think you quite understand how 2 different systems can compliment each other.

“Licensed Waterproofer” States:

Any product you/others sell and want homeowners to apply on the inside of basement walls CANNOT take this Outside pressure off the dang wall(s). Ya gotta go outside to do this...grrrr. If you talk people into applying products on inside when their problem(s) are Outside then, you need to be held liable-accountable when their walls continue to bow, cracks widen,mold/efflorescence continues to grow on walls etc. If you truly are an expert then you would NOT have recommended a product(s) that cannot possibly solve their problems

Sani-Tred:

You have to admit that every wall crack is not resulting water pressure. I have seen some pretty poorly built walls and slip-shod work. You have to admit that not all homes sit in that high of water. Even if a home was sitting in 4’ of water, at the wall/floor junction that’s 1.82 psi. and LESS every inch up the all.

Water Column Chart:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/WaterColumn.gif

That’s not enough pressure to collapse a properly constructed foundation built to CODE. I’m not talking about massive earth movement, massive tree roots, Loc Ness, or Big Foot. Some nuclear plants have 10 stories below grade and we’ve sealed them. By code, they must have a material that will pass the negative hydrostatic pressure tests which nothing has exceeded as much as Sani-Tred. We’ve sealed the interior of municipal manholes that were over 15’ deep without 1 instance of a drop of water. Regardless what you say, the products WORK. If a poorly built home was submerged in a swamp or in New Orleans during a flood, with massive earth movement, tree roots, Loc Ness and Big Foot I’d say water is the least of their worries, but even then Sani-Tred products would never bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate or leak.


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