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LicensedWaterproofer

12:18AM | 08/12/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


poor thing, seems you just don`t know

Basements that have crack(s) in floor and get water up through cracks in floor often ONLY need to have an honest/experienced plumber snake the storm trap. I have a long list of homeowners who were almost BS`d into an Inside drain tile or baseboard system when, all they needed was to snake the storm trap to free a blockage Under the floor which caused water to accumulate and back UP through these crack `n other openings in floor. NOBODY else recommended this to these homeowners, instead they pushed their systems...$7,000-$17,000+ to some us honest contractors, this is absolutely criminal!

there are some homes/basements that will need a sump pump(s) to....control water-level Under bsmt floor. for instance, those who live in areas like New Orleans/below sea level. However, while they may need sumps to control potential problems under floor, IF and when they have cracks in basement wall/bowing wall/mold-efflorescence on wall due to water entering they will also need to waterproof these cracks correctly to stop water from entering/stop mold-efflorescence/lessen pressure against wall.

Hey.....did you or did you not read links from OTHERS? They aren`t MY links, i didnt write the shtt, other did....did you read em and take some time and THINK `n try and understand what others said?

Radon gas?

--Radon resistant features--

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/hmbyguid.html#4.b.

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/physic.html#Character

where can radon ENTER a house?

2nd para.. "Radon gas can enter a home from the SOIL Through cracks in concrete floor sand walls, floor drains, sump pumps, construction joints and TINY cracks or PORES in Hollow-Block Walls"

got that? its in the SOIL, OUTSIDE, Against basement wall. MOST basement walls were ONLY-at best Damproofed, NOT Waterproofed and NOT backfilled with peastone from footing all the way up.

Can you possibly see how Radon can enter a block wall through pores/cracks? Once its Inside the hollow block....its in. lolol It can travel inside the hollow blocks and get into the first floor this way regardless of putting/painting/applying anything on inside of basement walls.

I`ll give you this, that it won`t hurt to apply some products on inside of wall to help reduce the chance the gas from getting into basement but, its still getting INTO cavities/cells of hollow blocks through cracks/pores on the Outside and can certainly rise in the blocks and get into first floors of homes.

Block walls can have hairline to 1-2"+ Cracks on the Outside and show nothing/no cracks on Inside. Thats right, just because you do not see a crack(s) on inside does NOT mean there isn`t a crack on the outside.

Maybe you don`t understand this `cos you don`t do the job. those who don`t work on the outside won`t see/understand how walls crack, how water enters these cracks `n other openings and FIRST gets inside the basement wall. In order to stop/prevent water from first-entering, these cracks must be sealed/waterproofed, Outside. Gezzz, sealing them inside does NOT stop water from getting INTO the block Outside.

This is where radon can enter, insects can enter,water enters...do you understand?

And if water/moisture is allowed to enter, from Outside then it sure as heck will increase chance of Mold,efflorescence. YOU cannot stop this water/moisture from entering by applying products on inside of basement wall, its sooo easy to deduce.

Inside Drain Tile `n Baseboard Systems do NOT stop water/moisture from entering these openings, nor will they stop/prevent all the other shtt, including lateral & hydrostatic Soil pressure and roots that cause MANY walls to crack,leak,bow.

Nah, no thanks on myself applying anything on inside, thats YOUR bag.

Hey Mr. Sani....if what you claim is true, in any way/shape/form then, how is it myself and other outside contractors could possibly have 0 bbb costumer complaints in 25-30+ Years? go figure, if we weren`t stopping/preventing water from entering,mold-efflorescence etc there sure as shtt be a huge problem, many complaints and so on.

and hey, lolol, MANY of OUR customers have done/tried ALL the Inside BS, paint etc and, have also tried these bs MYTHS that many preach incl`g, raise `n slope grade, install french drains to divert water,extend downspouts,mudjacking slabs etc etc. They don`t work because they don`t solve/seal the cracks or other Openings in basement walls or Above basement walls where, water Enters.

Anyone who repeatedly recommends this crap, like HI`s, Hm Imp radio talk show hosts etc, need to back-up what they say/recommend, if they are so certain then back it up. Since when do HI`s, others become experts in basement waterproofing/foundations? They`ve never done 1 job, let alone had to guarantee it over long period of time. Time to hold these people liable/accountable.


LicensedWaterproofer

02:45AM | 08/12/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


http://www.stocorp.com/pr.nsf/5d5efb09f77373618525666a004bca57/d4f316cb97c674368525692d006d00ea?OpenDocument

scroll down to -Federal response-

the F P Lab project director..." I would say 90% of moisture problems in houses are related to moisture coming in from the outside"

some of us have known this for a long time

http://wrc.iewatershed.com/index.php?pagename=education_forest_04_page_2

...para 5 ... trees palnted in the wrong places can have adverse effects on things around them.As tree roots grow in size, they push soil and sidewalks out of the way.And in some situations, they can even push against basement walls setting the stage for water leakage...."

only way to get roots OFF the outside of basement walls is from, the outside lol even this guy at North Dakota State gets that!

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extnews/newsrelease/2006/030906/05hortis.htm

first question-answer

surely a supposed 'expert' in basement waterproofing/foundations will understand this, well, maybe not huh

http://www.riverwatchonline.org/news/winnipeg_press/07_09_05.html

do you understand expansive soils? hydrostatic pressure? what it does to basement walls?

http://www.al-home-inspections.com/news-articles/article-4.html

Read and learn, what you`ve posted are YOUR links, i`m supposed to believe you? Based on your supposed views/opinions?

Have you EVER done one/single waterproofing job from the Outside? Ya know, wall had a crack(s) and you dug it down to seal-waterproof the crack? lol

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fail-Foundation-A2095.html


SaniTred

11:32AM | 08/14/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
You haven’t disproved anything. Sani-Tred products work everywhere they are applied and that is all there is to it. In order to ‘disprove it’ you’re trying to find a flaw in a suit of armor. Sure in an existing home you can’t lift the home up and apply to that tiny portion on the top of the foundation wall. New construction of course one would seal that location, that’s part of being thorough.

You want to talk about susceptible areas? How about every basement floor in America that exterior methods CAN NOT seal? Exterior treatments are NOT a ‘dead stop’ to water, moisture, vapor and problem radon.

Exterior methods do not eliminate problem radon regardless of the method because they CAN NOT seal all surfaces. 100% of the surface must be sealed for 100% of the foundation to be sealed.

You can not disprove the Sani-Tred system. Sani-Tred products perform as stated. You MUST be specific, you must prove that Sani-Tred products WILL bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate, leak and allow problem radon to enter through it. Without that, you’re wearing out your keyboard for nothing and this is a dead subject.

Anyone that says that there is ONLY ONE solution for all problems is naïve, uninformed or just block headed.


LicensedWaterproofer

11:51AM | 08/14/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


whatever you believe man

hmm, lol....you must have missed the REAL facts `n answers i posted about FLOORS!

read it and weep some more.

hey, i`ve proved for 25++ YEARS what 'works'.

and IF your talking about the cold joint/isoaltion joint/cove then, MOST basements-walls where water comes ONTO the Floor at the cold joint, IS indeed due to the same crack(s) & other Outside openings that allow water to enter into `n through the wall to begin with, but, you wouldn`t understand this since you`ve Never done one single dang exterior job. you go ahead and keep pushing your products, just know that when you try `n DECEIVE the public with certain claims in advertising/articles, some of us are watching.

amazing how someone with NO real experience, NO hands on knowledge could possibly have all the right answers/inside products.


SaniTred

12:12PM | 08/14/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
NO, you did not post anything that says that exterior or even interior drains eliminate the possibility of ‘moisture vapor drive’ through all floors.

I am not referring to walls or a wall/floor joint at all. Floors and only floors. Poured concrete by nature is porous. Exterior and interior drains can not dry up the soil and desiccate the earth beneath or surrounding any structure.

That is what I have been talking about since day 1. No, you did not post anything that says that drains eliminate this possibility.

LicensedWaterproofer

01:37PM | 08/14/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


most basements do NOT have a dang problem with water/moisture coming up through/wetting floor. i have a moisture-vapor-drive for you lolol things are that bad for you huh, to bring up a condition that most don`t have a problem with...got milk?

Not all, Most!

for those who do, some of those problems are due to-- a thin basement floor, yeah, a 2" or so thickness and, some of those have cracks in the floor.

and then, some who get dampness/water coming up through the floor have a....blockage Under the floor which can often, not always, be freed by snaking through storm trap. would YOU like to call many homeowners who`ve had this and were almost talked into an inside drain tile system when they ONLY needed an honest/exp plumber to snake...huh?

would you rather talk to couple of plumbers i recomend who`ve freed these occurances? huh? cost them about $125-200

NO problems since, zero/nada, interesting eh?

you seem to NOT-MUCH, want to delve into the problems most have, why basements leak, have mold/efflorescence, why walls crack and bow in. This means nothing to you huh

are YOU saying, in your expert opinion that, most basement leaks, mold/efflorescence etc is NOT due to basement wall cracks/openings/problems? NOT due to lateral `n hydrostatic Soil pressure or tree roots? are you saying that most basements have problems under the floor?


SaniTred

07:21AM | 08/15/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
“LicensedWaterproofer” States:

“are YOU saying, in your expert opinion that, most basement leaks, mold/efflorescence etc is NOT due to basement wall cracks/openings/problems? NOT due to lateral `n hydrostatic Soil pressure or tree roots? are you saying that most basements have problems under the floor?”

No I was replying to your insinuation that drains under the floor or surrounding the home will act as a ‘dead stop’ to moisture. Drains don’t do that; you of all people should know. Drains do not dry up the earth and act as a ‘vapor barrier’. Knowing this you should simply admit that and not ‘mislead’. Then again, if you do honestly believe that, then just say “Drains will permanently stop 100% of all water, moisture and vapor from entering through all floors in any fashion”. That is called a ‘claim’. You have not done so because that would be a lie.

“LicensedWaterproofer” States:

“most basements do NOT have a dang problem with water/moisture coming up through/wetting floor.”

Not true, but by the same token most basements do NOT have a dang problem with tree roots and soil pressure. It is a fact that drains do not dry the earth to eliminate moisture. Moisture is ALWAYS present and drains are not a ‘dead stop’ to moisture. Moisture vapor drive exists which is why exterior methods can not positively waterproof every home on the planet because the floors are left susceptible at the very least.

Efflorescence is sign that moisture has already permeated THROUGH the wall or floor and evaporated leaving behind a white crystal/powdery deposits. Sani-Tred stops efflorescence permanently because it stops all water, moisture, vapor which CAUSES mold, mildew etc…

Mold only grows if it can. A foundation that has been positively waterproofed can not grow mold.

http://www.moldtips.com/whatis_grow.htm

Moisture permeates through pored concrete, block, brick, stone/mortar etc… Though it may appear dry to the naked eye, moisture vapor drive is slow and continuous. Floors ‘slab on grade’ suffer from ‘moisture vapor drive’ which is why sheet vapor barriers are common but not always effective. Sheet vapor barriers are typically not 1 solid sheet, by code one may use multiple sheets, but should overlap 6” which is done much if not most of the time. Such vapor barriers are ineffective below grade for this reason.

DIY moisture vapor drive test:

To check a light-colored concrete slab for moisture, place a flat, non-corrugated rubber mat on the slab. Weight it to seal it against the surface. Look under the mat after a few days. If the covered area shows dark, wet marks, there is much moisture vapor transmission through the slab. For other concrete floors/walls, tape a 15-inch square of clear polyethylene film to the slab with moisture-resistant tape, sealing all four edges. If after a few days one sees condensation/moisture, there is much moisture vapor transmission through the slab.

When a basement is finished on the interior, moisture vapor becomes even more so ‘an accumulative problem’. Moisture/vapor becomes trapped under and behind the finishing materials, harvests mold and traps radon. Over time the problems worsen as more moisture, vapor, mold and radon accumulate. Sani-Tred products act a permanently adhered topical and deep penetrating vapor barrier which can be applied to 100% of all surfaces inside the basement and will remain permanently flexible.

WARNING ~ COMMON SENCE ALLERT:

Sani-Tred products DO NOT magically repel tree roots on the exterior of the foundation.

Sani-Tred products DO NOT stop the earth from moving.

Sani-Tred products DO NOT act as an approved insecticide (call an exterminator)

Sani-Tred products WILL never allow water, moisture, vapor or problem radon to enter wherever they are applied and never bubble, chip, peel, crack or delaminate.


LicensedWaterproofer

03:28PM | 08/15/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


look wise guy, see, you just can`t put it ALL together, can ya? lolol

what is it you don`t get? Oh, thats right, you`ve NEVER actually done Basement Waterproofing have you! haha

THATS the Problem!

NO shtt on the drains, thats right, drain tiles inside or outside will NOT/cannot eliminate all water-moisture that IS under basement floors and on the Outside-along-against basement walls, no shtt man.

This is why one needs to fine and correctly seal/waterproof ALL cracks and Other openings, this is how/where Most water enters basements.

Like i`ve already said, those folks who have water that can accumulate under floor and then rise UP through any OPENING/Crack in floor should FIRST, determine if there is a blockage UNDER the floor by, having an honest-Exp Plumber snake Under the floor, through storm trap etc, this is what i said. geezzzz

OFTEN.....homeowners are BS`d into Inside drain tile `n baseboard systems & sumps when, snaking often frees these blockages. I said, if YOU can`t understand that or believe that then, why don`t YOU simply call Many homeowners and a couple Plumbers who know what it is i`m talking about, are ya scared to FIND the truth?

Hey ya big dummy, haha, hey, are you saying I am lieing? Huh? Are you also saying the Yoder Group, Bob Vila, Tim Carter aka Ask the Builder and Other links/articles are BS? they lieing too?

Did YOU fully-read and Understand the MOLD Links i`ve posted?

After 28 years i can honestly say alot of what you post/have on YOUR website is BSSSHTT-Misleading-False. hey, if YOU think you can disprove me in a COURT then do so!

i`m waiting and would GREATLY enjoy that!

In fact, lolol, i`ll take Any challenge from Any Inside Co/and their Systems that...mislead/falsify claims/advertisements for....self-interest. So, gather up your Inside buddys and lets get the ball rollin`.

You should NOT mislead/post False claims in any advertisement to, mislead the public to sell your products/services etc.

You appear to be LACKING Common Sense when it comes to basement waterproofing/foundation work.

I hope anyone reading this saw this persons LAST few LINES......

Sanitred will NOT, as they say,allow water,moisture,radon etc where.....APPLIED!

got that?

Lets say you have a hollow-block basement walls.....hey, cracks and openings on the OUTSIDE of a block wall WILL allow water,moisture,radon gas,insects and conditions for mold to grow....thats right. THIS is where water/moisture etc....FIRST ENTER a block wall, but ya see what Sanitred wrote,They don`t-won`t Guarantee that YOU-The homeowner the OUTSIDE Entry Points/Cracks.

Idiots, there are MANY in this business

http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp

.......read 6th paragraph in Yoder link

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fail-Foundation-A2095.html

http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH058_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

http://www.askthebuilder.com/015_Exterior_Foundation_Wall_Waterproofing.shtml

use hydraulic cement on large cracks on, The OUTSIDE, NOT inside

http://www.al-home-inspections.com/news-articles/article-4.html

http://www.fanninremodeling.com/floodbasement.pdf

scroll to...why worry about water in the basement....and...Possible Causes

MOLD?

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/images/moldguide.pdf

read it and weep Sanitred

http://www.abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131638%page=1

"find the moisture, eliminate the moisture, clean up the mold"

"locate and fix leaks imeediately"

"Cleaning up the Mold is Not enough.You Must find the water source and ELIMINATE it"

Your products don`t eliminate water/moisture that enters throygh cracks and other Outside openings which create ideal wet/damp conditions for Mold.


SaniTred

09:55AM | 08/16/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
So now you’re saying that every home needs an interior (under the floor) drain, exterior drainage AND a material applied to the interior (cracks/joints)? What about all surfaces left unsealed and still susceptible to moisture vapor drive? I know that this is your answer to:

“those folks who have water that can accumulate under floor and then rise UP through any OPENING/Crack in floor should FIRST, determine if there is a blockage UNDER the floor by, having an honest-Exp Plumber snake Under the floor, through storm trap etc”

You’re assuming that every home has drains under the floor and that everyone wants them.

You said it yourself “thats right, drain tiles inside or outside will NOT/cannot eliminate all water-moisture that IS under basement floors and on the Outside-along-against basement walls”.

You have only proved that all floors are still left susceptible with or without drains (interior and/or exterior). Drains can’t stop vapor drive. You can not rule out moisture because even garage floors – slab on grade suffer from moisture vapor drive which delaminates other coatings even more so below grade or is this a lie?

Now you’re being ridiculous and still haven’t proven anything. You must have way too much time on your hands to think that the top of a block wall is a CRITICAL and SERVERE problem in every home on the planet. This location is typically above grade and you’re trying to think way too hard. You’re forgetting about deathly high radon levels 155.3 which Sani-Tred has reduced to 0.2 which are way below safe levels. This specific example – the customer left an open pit! He didn’t have to, but he did. Just another Sani-Tred success story. There is not one example of a home which their radon problem hasn’t been brought to below safe levels. You’re still reaching. Sani-Tred products work regardless of your opinions and desperate attempts. You’re still beating a brick wall there …

Ever heard of ‘closed cell foam’? This for instance could easily be easily squirted into the block if desired. This is flotation foam which is impervious to water and grows many many times its size. A little bit goes a long way. It’s not concrete, but hollow block walls never were the best building material, wouldn’t you agree?

This being your ONLY instance as a ‘weak link’ proves to be a weak and desperate one considering your best efforts still leave your customers with the majority of the square footage susceptible - the floor. You can’t say that not a single molecule of water, moisture, vapor or even problem radon can’t enter after you’re gone.

You’re stuck on hollow block walls and that proves you’re on thin ice and running out of circumstances.

Bugs? Come on… People call us for a positive waterproofing solution and you continue to talk about bugs. Honestly, not one single customer in over 20 years ever asked us about bug-proofing, but 100% of them expressed their earnest desire to eliminate all water, moisture and or problem radon. You make it sound like we say “a new paint job on your car will stop engine failure”.


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