COMMUNITY FORUM

guitarfixxer

04:20AM | 02/20/08
Member Since: 02/19/08
1 lifetime posts
I find it interesting to read how you can suggest STUPID things like tree roots and soil presure and wall bowing in etc....are you a NIMROD (I believe you called the Sani tred guy that!)No one even suggests any of those problems can be delt with Sani-Tred or any other waterproofing products. Assuming a person has no problems with "walls caving in" or "tree roots blowing through the wall" or "earth moving soil pressure" and all they have is a problem with ground water that seeps between the Footings, wall and floors (3 cold joints)SANI - TRED is the answer, assuming it is applied properly.

My parents built a home 55 years ago and the basement has leaked since day one (Fairly flat land and ground water is high)12 years ago I installed Sani-tred (after 3 company's had tried draining from the outside)because they told me it would take care of the problem....Guess what, no a drop of water since that day.....Thank you sani - tred!!!!!

LicensedWaterproofer

11:21PM | 02/20/08
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts
ha, people are full of crap.

first off, sani has UN-satisfactory BBB record due to unresolved customer complaints, ok. if you or anyone else wants their products...BUY them,go ahead.

Most leaks in basements are due to cracks,loose parging and other direct openings on the outside,block walls OFTEN have cracks on the exterior of wall and they do NOT show on interior,are NOT VISBLE!

LATERAL SOIL PRESSURE and sometimes roots, CAUSE MANY cracks,subsequent leaks due to these cracks, widening of cracks and can cause walls to bow in.

Here`s some reading/educational info/FACTS for ya, problem is people like YOU either think you know it all or don`t wanna LEARN, won`t read...thats your problem/incompetence

Amherst NY LATERAL SOIL PRESSURE,Foundation movement-Causative factors...Prepared by US ARMY CORPS of ENGINEERS http://www.amherst.ny.us/pdf/building/soilsstudy/TOASFS_section3.pdf

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/publications/marineclay.htm#2 scroll to BASEMENT WALLS...read MOST Succesful REPAIR METHOD and, what do THEY tell ya to backfill with

approx 50% of all homes in N America built on clay

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fail-Foundation-A2095.html Read what is often the biggest load/weight against a house/foundation, read COMPACTION,read about best BACKFILL etc

Understand anything? or you just full of it too?

6th para... http://www.dwightyoderbuilders.com/concrete.cfm

Some WILL have problems under bsmt floor,basement back ups.. http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?a=324782&z=2 SCROLL down to 'LOOKING for the CAUSE'

some will need an honest/exp`d plumber to snake storm trap-cleanout or, if they have a sump pit that has drain tiles empty into it, snake the tiles

bsmt back ups...

http://mkasmtp1.stlmsd.com/MSD/Outreach/basement_bkup.pdf

your not going to bs me, been around 30 years, try all ya like.

SaniTred

10:05AM | 03/13/08
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
I would first like to respond to LicensedWaterproofer.

You still fail to realize that not EVERYONE has drains beneath their floor to snake out. Most people do not wish to pay $14,000 or more for a drain system only to be left with a basement still susceptible to water, moisture, vapor, and problem radon.

Moisture at the very least is always present below grade.

Concrete is not waterproof, moisture-proof, or vapor tight.

All the drainage in the world will not dry up the earth under and/or surrounding ANY foundation.

ANY type of drainage, whether around the exterior or under the floor, will not stop moisture vapor drive throughout any portion of any basement floor.

Pumping water is not ‘waterproofing’ … it’s ‘water mitigation’.

Snaking out drains is not a ‘solution’ because it is not waterproofing. If you could provide a shred of evidence that water mitigation stops moisture vapor drive then you would be the first in history! That is an immoral sales tactic to take advantage of the uninformed and a lie when stated by people who know better.

If you wish to perpetuate these myths then I believe you’re underestimating your audience and insulting their intelligence. What people want is ‘bone dry’ and proven insurance that their basement will forever remain bone dry regardless of ANY circumstance. What people want is zero maintenance … not sump pits, dehumidifiers, spare pumps, battery backups, sheet goods, water alarms, excavation, plumbers, and certainly not a single drop of water after they have exhausted all mitigation methods listed above. People do not want to mitigate … they want to eliminate.

As I mentioned long ago … drainage/hydrostatic relief does have its uses and that has always been a fact, but any hydrostatic relief in any situation does NOT waterproof anything. Boats have bilge pumps, but the pump does not waterproof the hull, it merely pumps water out of the bilge. No one would ever encourage water to enter their hull just to pump it back out again.

SaniTred

12:03PM | 03/13/08
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
mvwood,

One simple way to identify ‘moisture vapor drive’ is to lay a flat rubber mat on the floor and leave it there for a while … a few days or whatever. If you pull up the mat and find that the concrete is a darker under the mat then you’ve personally witnessed the moisture that weeps through concrete (moisture vapor drive). Moisture vapor drive is more powerful than you would believe. This moisture pushes paints off of the floor causing bubbling, peeling, delamination, etc… If carpet were laid directly over a floor that is not permanently sealed then mold is likely to grow.

The guy who quoted you is obviously not solving the problem directly; he will attempt to ‘mitigate’ the water. Sheet goods are used as an attempt to isolate the basement’s contents from the water/moisture.

I would like to take this opportunity to clarify another scare tactic that is too often used with regards to ‘wall buckling pressure’. Your basement has NEVER had any hydrostatic relief (from what you stated). The real question to ask yourself is “what is the most water anyone has ever witnessed in my basement”? If your basement has a few damp areas, a couple leaking cracks, and a few puddles on the floor then how much water entered your basement on that occasion? If the answer is approx 5-10 gallons of total water … then I have to ask, “what pressure”? Sani-Tred products will absolutely hold out 5-10 gallons of water … no problem and there’s no pressure to speak of.

What if your basemen typically floods 2 INCHES DEEP every time it rains. No problem … where’s this wall buckling, foundation collapsing, floor cracking pressure? Sani-Tred will hold out more than 2” of water without question.

OK, the flip-side to this coin is what if your basement FLOODS 5’ – 6’ deep every time it rains? The answer is, you’ve got worse problems than waterproofing. Yes, Sani-Tred products WILL permanently waterproof even this basement, but you must first get rid of all this standing water because your basement is sitting in the middle of a swamp. Yes, in this circumstance you ALWAYS HAVE had a massive amount of water pressure against this flooded foundation. No one in their right mind would say “I wouldn’t worry about all about this high water table”. Sani-Tred products will withstand much more negative hydrostatic pressure than can possibly occur in any basement … even if you picked your house up and dropped it into a lake (not exaggerating either).

If your question is … “would a typical, residential, Sani-Tred waterproofed foundation that has been submerged 8’ deep into a lake be fine forever … structurally”? The honest answer is and always has been NO. No one in their right mind would ever build a foundation in such an aquatic environment without first constructing the foundation to meet the specifications for such an environment … for obvious reasons.

“What happens to the water”? The honest answer is ‘where it always has just not in your basement’. Keep in mind just how much water were talking about too … remember that tiny amount of leakage you witness? You have more water flushing down the toilet than during the hardest rain. Now think about the question again “what happens to the water”? Here’s a good question, where does the water go that is pumped out of a sump? It gets pumped out of the home and simply goes right back to where it came from … the ground. Sealed or not you will have the same amount of water in the ground as you always have. Now some people have the luxury of living up on a big hill and the water can be pumped or drained far away from the home, but this is not the majority.

Water/moisture goes wherever it can. Water follows the path of least resistance. At the moment the least rout of resistance is where it is currently leaking into your basement. Once permanently sealed out, this water/moisture will never enter again. Your foundation will be sitting just as it always has for nearly 70 years and will likely continue to stand for another 70 … only bone dry.

Here’s a few more myths ~ water dissolves concrete ~ concrete needs to breath :) ~ the presence of water/moisture erodes concrete. The presence of water/moisture never hurt concrete. If concrete dissolved in the presence of water/moisture then foundations, bridges, highways, underwater tunnels, pilings, pier columns, and dams would never be made of concrete. Concrete does not need to breathe. If that was a fact then how is your foundation footing expected to breathe :) ? What does hurt concrete is water/moisture being allowed to perpetually travel completely through it. This DOES erode minerals out of the concrete. The depletion of these minerals DOES cause the concrete to loose integrity over a long period of time. You can actually see these minerals in the form of efflorescence. Efflorescence is water/moisture that traveled completely through the concrete, evaporates on the other side, and what is left is a mineral buildup (efflorescence). Efflorescence can also be comprised of some minerals that were originally in the ground water/moisture too.

Unfortunately the only way to stop 100% of all water, moisture, vapor, and problem radon from the exterior of the foundation is a 1 piece seamless liner under and around the home. This is not practical of course. Water mitigation may stop a flood by pumping water, but can never guarantee to stop moisture vapor drive. Exterior coatings obviously do not solve any floor problem and will never stop water from coming through where the wall meets the floor. Sheet materials unfortunately do not solve the problem as they will have seams and doesn’t stop the water/moisture. Dehumidifiers only pull moisture out of the air (which is water that has already evaporated). One thing that is a fact is that all of the above is ‘water mitigation’.

Once Sani-Tred has been applied it can never bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate, or leak for the life of the structure. This link will explain why: http://www.sanitred.com/waterproofing-products-qualities.htm Once applied, the 1st coat of PermaFlex saturates into the concrete then cures to become as tough as a truck tire. All Sani-Tred products molecularly weld to each other. Now you seal any joints, seams, cracks, and holes using LRB/TAV mixture (Liquid Rubber Base, Thickening Activator). This mixture has 600% elongation and will molecularly weld to the prime coat that is embedded inside the concrete. To finish things off you apply 1 coat of PermaFlex. This coat will molecularly weld to all previous applications to create a 100% seamless, 100% waterproof basement, and all of the materials have 600% elongation. It is impossible to remove these materials without removing the surface of the concrete with it. This is not paint and certainly not temporary or superficial in any way.

LicensedWaterproofer

01:13AM | 03/14/08
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts
number one, according to BBB you have UN-satisfactory record due to unresolved customer complaint(s).

so don`t come on ANY board and yap about ethics or expertise on THIS subject to me.Your BBB 'classification' is 'Manufacturers & Producers'.

..of products. Hardly defines being any sort of expert in-on THIS subject.Doesn`t say Basement waterproofing,Foundation repair. I don`t see anything,not one word on-about you`ve been repairing basements for 20-30+ years

Maybe you should take care of those homeowner complaints before professing how good you are etc.

You do indeed have false,misleading claims on your site, sure do, gee,IND Atty Gen. i guess is too busy with other things right now.

Are YOU trying to tell the WORLD,anyone on any of these sites you post that...YOU know/understand MORE than all those other links i`ve posted,and more than my 30 years?

You know more than 'Yoder'..'Army Corps of Eng'...Fairfax Couty'...'Vila'...'EOF Foundations' etc etc etc???????? HUH? lolol

You have the answers and we do not?

BetterWay

11:17AM | 04/07/08
Member Since: 04/06/08
3 lifetime posts
As a independent contractor I have been using the Sanitred products for 6 years now and have succesfully sealed over 100 homes and condos with their products and have had ZERO dissatisfied customers. Some of these homes had severe leakage and probably about 70% of my waterproofing is the cold seam ( floor/wall ) .

As is often the case some "professionals" in the business dismiss the product because they haven't tried it and lump it into the catagory of a "surface sealent".

Keep an open mind and try the product before you bad mouth it.

KingVolcano

05:50AM | 04/08/08
Member Since: 03/03/05
273 lifetime posts
The problem usually is not the product, it is application error or improper use of a product. Unfortunately, once the product is in the hands of applicator, the manufacturer cannot supervise the job.

I'm not saying Sanitred is good or bad.

Sanitred will only be as good as the situation will allow under the parameters of how the product was engineered.

However, I have to state that very few manufacturers stand behind their product. Most will put blame on the applicator and simply walk away.

I do not agree with everything stated by Mr. Sanitred. If I were him, I would stay away from stating definatives. Also, education on the different types of concrete would be advised before you compare foundation concrete to concrete used for bridges. The more I read your post, the less I have faith in your product. You are seting yourself up for failure when you mke people think it is fail-safe.

Now, we have BetterWay backing up the Sanitred claim. How much weight can be put into a claim made by a person that was either prompted by Sanitred to post here, or it is Sanitred. Unfortunately it is hard to confirm any statement made here. As a contractor, I take photographs at every job site. If BetterWay can provide the moderator with a business website along with proof, Cellarwater can confirm or deny his post.

I'd like to say we can protect people from manufacturers, but most of the time with DYI'ers, it's protecting them from themselves.

LAST STATEMENT

DYI'ers - If you decide to buy SaniTred, make sure you are willing to accept the fact it may not work for your situation.

BetterWay

10:59AM | 04/08/08
Member Since: 04/06/08
3 lifetime posts
My company is Better Way Home Solutions.

I'm based in So NH.

I'm registered with the state, in the yellow pages and my phone is 603-537-2345.

Call me if you doubt it!

Bob Matson

BetterWay

09:56AM | 04/09/08
Member Since: 04/06/08
3 lifetime posts
In addition please feel free to check BBB for ANY complaints against my company.
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