COMMUNITY FORUM

cheeop

11:36AM | 11/24/08
Member Since: 11/23/08
3 lifetime posts
Bvelectrical
(All temperatures are listed in fahrenheit)

I have a Kenmore refrigerator (built by Whirlpool) model 106.73194302

For the five years we've owned it, food in the freezer goes bad (frostbitten to the point where we can't eat it) in about 2 or 3 weeks, even food that is factory sealed (we've never opened it) and has an expiration date months in the future.

We bought the 5-year extended warranty with our fridge, but the service technicians have never been able to pinpoint what the problem is, so haven't been able to fix it.

I'm told that an auto-defrosting freezer like this will warm up 10-15 degrees two timers per day, for 20 minutes. The last technician who visited changed the defrost mode to last 9 minutes instead of 20, hoping that would keep our food from becoming frostbitten.

I use two thermometers in my freezer (and two in the fridge) so that I know they're accurate. I've been datalogging with the wireless thermometer (writing down temperatures at set times) so I can track the temp fluctuations in the fridge.

Every 26-30 hours, the freezer goes over 0 degrees for more than 60 minutes. It spends about 45 of those minutes over 10 degrees, and usually peaks around 20, 22, or 25 degrees over 0.

That schedule and duration do not jive with what the service technicians have told me about the freezer - defrost should be twice per day (approx every 12 hours), not every 24-30 hours. Defrost should last 9 minutes (or 20 minutes in an unmodified freezer), this temperature starts rising from the normal -10, goes over 0 (when I'm notified by an alarm on the thermometer), and does not go back under 0 for 60-80 minutes.

So, is it bad for frozen food to be taken up to those temperatures for that long? It certainly seems to cause frostbite (moisture which leaves the food and forms ice on the inside of the package) in 2-3 weeks.

The last service technician told us that 2-3 weeks is about how long we should expect the freezer to keep brand-new (unopened) food for. He says he would never, ever think that a freezer would keep food good for a month - that's entirely too long.

DanO

05:21PM | 11/24/08
Member Since: 11/11/02
2271 lifetime posts
** defrost should be twice per day (approx every 12 hours) **

Your fridge model uses an 'adaptive defrost control' (ADC for short). There is no set defrost period or duration with them as explained at the following link:

- How does a frost free refrigerator's defrost system work?

LINK > www.appliance411.com/links/jump.cgi?ID=658

** The last technician changed the defrost mode to last 9 minutes instead of 20 **

I don't know how he'd do that. I wasn't aware it was even possible since it is controlled by the ADC's chip and dependant on several variables.

** service technician told us that 2-3 weeks is about how long we should expect the freezer to keep brand-new (unopened) food for. **

You can read some guidelines at this link although for the freezer a dedicated freezer (not refrigerator/freezer) would keep foods best.

- Food Storage: Refrigerator and Freezer

LINK > http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC3522.htm

** [after defrost] does not go back [below] 0 for 60-80 minutes. **

What are the compressor and fans doing at this time?

Are you certain it was in "defrost"?

If so, was the evaporator coil fully defrosted?

What is the frost pattern like on the evaporator coil *once it has been running again* for at least a short while?

Dan O.

www.Appliance411.com/parts/?ref411=Kenmore+Fridge

The Appliance Information Site

=D~~~~~~

cheeop

06:23PM | 11/24/08
Member Since: 11/23/08
3 lifetime posts
Hi, thanks for your reply.

** Your fridge model uses an 'adaptive defrost control' (ADC for short). There is no set defrost period or duration **

and

** I don't know how he'd do that. I wasn't aware it was even possible since it is controlled by the ADC's chip and dependant on several variables. **

It's disturbing that the repair technician (sent by One Care from Sears) stated that he has been servicing refrigerators for well over 20 years, and gave information directly opposite what you are telling me.

He stated a long list of facts about our refrigerator, starting with how it's made by Whirlpool and not by Kenmore, how the defrost system works (twice per day, 20 minutes per), and how he's changing the duration ("less than ten minutes") after which he had time time it (it came to 9 minutes when he said it turned back on).

** Are you certain it was in "defrost"? **

I'm not certain of anything about this freezer - I'm starting to doubt things I was previously "certain" about.

How can I tell that it's in defrost mode without opening it to look?

** If so, was the evaporator coil fully defrosted? **

I don't know how to tell. However, I have today's anecdote: After it went to +25 today, then back to -1, I opened it to get an ice pack out. The ice pack was softer than they normally are when I pull them out (it's the blue kind with a gel inside), and plastic packages had moisture (as opposed to frost) on them.

Does it seem normal to you that it would spend 60-80 minutes over 0 degrees?

Here's a typical log (the door remains closed for the duration of these times):

11/21/2008, 8:15pm, +5 degrees

8:25, +14

8:36, +22

8:46, +14

8:57, +6

9:07, +4

9:14, +2

9:38, -3

11/22, 1:33p, +11 degrees

1:41 +17

2:03 +9

11/23, 12:05, +1 degree

12:15, +9

12:25, +23

12:31, +25

12:36, +24

12:41, +19

12:47, +14

12:59, +7

1:11, +1

1:24: 0

1:36, -3

The thermometer I'm measuring the temperature with is designed to work in a freezer and does not change temperature readily - opening and closing the door doesn't change it, for instance. Only putting new food in after we get home from the store will, and only a couple of degrees. I've never seen it go above -5 or -1 even when sticking new food in.

For it to go to +22 or +25 for 20+ minutes, and spend 60-80 minutes over 0 seems like a long time to me, any comments about that?

DanO

09:17PM | 11/24/08
Member Since: 11/11/02
2271 lifetime posts
** How can I tell that it's in defrost mode without opening it to look? **

You probably can't. It would likely take either visual observation or electrical testing, both requiring at least some disassembly.

** Does it seem normal to you that it would spend 60-80 minutes over 0 degrees? **

That would depend on what you're actually measuring the temperature of. If measuring the air stream temperature, as soon as it starting cooling again the freezer compartment air should start dropping in temperature. If you were actually reading the temperature of a surface near the evaporator (and thus defrost heater), that surface could remain warmer for longer.

** and spend 60-80 minutes over 0 seems like a long time to me **

It should be able to cool down quickly once the compressor starts running, shortly after a defrost.

That is why I asked about the frost pattern of the evaporator coil and the running of the compressor and fans to try to determine if the fridge is even cooling like it should. Of course, if it isn't cooling properly it wouldn't be able to recover well after the added heat of a defrost cycle.

JMO

Dan O.

www.Appliance411.com/parts/?ref411=Kenmore+Fridge

The Appliance Information Site

=D~~~~~~

cheeop

04:32AM | 11/25/08
Member Since: 11/23/08
3 lifetime posts
** That would depend on what you're actually measuring the temperature of. If measuring the air stream temperature, as soon as it starting cooling again the freezer compartment air should start dropping in temperature. **

** The thermometer I'm measuring the temperature with is designed to work in a freezer and does not change temperature readily - opening and closing the door doesn't change it, for instance. Only putting new food in after we get home from the store will, and only a couple of degrees. I've never seen it go above -5 or -1 even when sticking new food in. **

The thermometer is clipped on to the front of the metal rack in the middle of the freezer, exactly where the instructions that came with it state to place it.

I don't think it's measuring an airstream (don't those start in the back of the freezer?), and it's been closed for several hours during these logs.

Does it seem safe for the food to be subjected to the temperatures I listed for those periods of time?

DanO

09:26AM | 11/25/08
Member Since: 11/11/02
2271 lifetime posts
** Does it seem safe for the food to be subjected to the temperatures I listed for those periods of time? **

Sorry but I'm not a food safety expert. I don't know whom could answer that question for you. Sorry.

Dan O.

www.Appliance411.com

The Appliance Information Site

=D~~~~~~
Click_to_reply_button
Inspiration_banner

INSPIRATION GALLERY



Post a reply as Anonymous

Photo must be in JPG, GIF or PNG format and less than 5MB.

Reply_choose_button

Anonymous

Post_new_button or Login_button
Register

The MicroHouse's diminutive size—just 96 square feet—was determined by the maximum allowed for construction without a perm... Filling an underutilized area beneath the stairs is a smart way to save space. Doing so with a stash of wood, however, is ... The Audubon Society inspired wallpaper in this Adirondack-styled entryway will get you in the outdoor mood. Grab your coat... Chalkboard paint opens up endless possibilities for customizing your dresser time and time again. Use chalk to label the c... A fireplace in the bathroom creates the ultimate setting for relaxation. Homeowners often choose electric or gas over wood... This roomy boot tray made from punched metal stands up to all the elements. Station it in your mudroom or at your back doo... There’s nothing like a new set of cabinet hardware to refresh a room. The possibilities are endless: Go modern, rustic, or... FLOR carpet tiles are a simple and affordable way to customize a floor covering for any space. You can make anything from ... Chalkboard paint features prominently in this elegant yet unpretentious headboard design. Add a new message daily to reflec... Salvaged boards in varying widths and colors make up the dramatic accent wall in this attic space. The high-gloss white of... The indecisive homeowner need not fret over choosing one (or even two) cabinet colors. The kitchen cabinets in this artist... Incorporate nature into your lighting scheme by securing a dead tree in a concrete mold and draping your pendant lamp from... Simple and striking, a couple of pieces of "lovingly used" furniture creates a special kind of charm. A weathered chair fo... First dress up your metal shelves with a coat of paint in an accent color that complements your kitchen decor. Then arrang... The vibrant green of Granny Smith apples make a beautifully natural alternative to the traditional evergreen wreath. Brigh...
Follow_banner_a
Newsletter_icon Google_plus Facebook Twitter Pinterest Youtube Rss_icon