COMMUNITY FORUM

HenryStaley

02:13PM | 03/26/06
Member Since: 03/25/06
4 lifetime posts
Tim,

I beg to differ with you. I am a home improvement contractor that has installed Leaf Relief for the last three years without a complaint. I have over 15,000' installed on homes; in that three year period; or about 1000 homes. Frankly; I have tore off your product on some homes to replace it with Leaf Relief because the homeowner I encountered was not happy with the Elko system. Leaf Relief can be installed for just a little over what you claim your product can be installed for and it comes with a no clog guarantee from Alcoa which I don't believe you offer (correct me if I'm wrong). Yes; some debri can lay on top of the product but we've never had a problem with a clog...not one. Why would a big corporation like Alcoa put their name behind it (Leaf Relief) if it didn't work? Nor would I continue to install Leaf Relief if it didn't work or if I was getting complaints! Just setting the record straight.

tgstaub

04:15AM | 03/27/06
Member Since: 08/20/04
13 lifetime posts
Henry:

Call me and let's chat. We both know these blogs aren't the place for slamming competitors, and I frankly think Leaf Relief is one of the better solutions out there, compared to the ridiculously expensive products.

I've had numerous contractors switch from GuttaGard to Leaf Relief . . . and back again, after Leaf Relief clogged and ran over.

The 10 year no clog warranty, as you well know, is for the INTERIOR of the gutter only. Of course it won't clog if debris can't get through, but neither can water when the panels clog . . . and they DO clog.

Tim

HenryStaley

04:54PM | 03/30/06
Member Since: 03/25/06
4 lifetime posts
Tim,

I had no intention of slamming any competitors; but when I read your comment "With the Elko GuttaGard, there's no debris sitting on top of the gutter like Leaf Relief, and you don't have to worry about the gutter guard clogging and water overflowing down the house" I thought that was kinda slamming the competition! And you posted that comment right after someone posted a comment about Leaf Relief. So retaliation can only be imminent sometimes in self defense.

I don't have a problem with you touting your own product, but I think anyone that installs another product would appreciate if you didn't degrade other products.

I also appreciate your offer, but my motto is "If it's not broke, don't fix it". And so far I am 110% satisfied with the Alcoa Leaf Relief system and so are my customers (3 years and counting). If anything changes I will be the first to let you know.

Good luck!

tgstaub

05:49AM | 03/31/06
Member Since: 08/20/04
13 lifetime posts
As I've said, of the various collection systems out there, Leaf Relief is the best and I recommend it frequently.

However, the FACTS are:

1) debris decomposes and does not blow off the panel as claimed;

2) When it clogs, and it does clog, it will overflow over the lip of the gutter;

3) And the 10 year no-clog warranty is for the INTERIOR of the gutter only, and does not warrant that the gutter protection product won't clog.

I believe in being completely frank with customers. Provided they know what they're buying, I believe Leaf Relief is a fine product offered by an outstanding company . . . both in the U.S. by Alcoa and in Canada by the original inventor, Alu-Rex (where it's called Gutter Clean).

Thanks much for the exchange. Please do feel free to call me.

Tim

HenryStaley

08:01PM | 03/31/06
Member Since: 03/25/06
4 lifetime posts
Tim,

I thought your comments earlier about not debating this in public was a good idea; and I was going to drop this conversation. However; your relentless, bogus comments about Leaf Relief deserve some attention. It appears as though you are trying to defame the Alcoa Leaf Relief product.

Pardon me Tim but I just want to apologize to any folks who are reading this; looking for gutter protection products; I normally do not engage in debates on here; but Alcoa's Leaf Relief is what I install; and I think it's worth setting the record straight; so folks please pardon our dust. I am not affiliated with Alcoa in any way, other than I just install their products on a local level; so I really don't have anything to gain here (or an axe to grind) other than defending a great company and product.

Ok, Tim, back to you. Alright, you say you have the following "FACTS". Facts are usually backed up with evidence. So please provide evidence of your listed facts here so I and everyone else can see them, if you can. Make me and everyone else here a believer of your claims and I will drop this debate. Here are your claims or so called facts about Leaf Relief:

1) debris decomposes and does not blow off the panel as claimed;

Please provide proof over and above Alcoa's disclaimer which is no secret which states:

"In most cases, normal debris is lifted away with only a gentle breeze. In sheltered roof areas or overhangs on shallow pitched roofs, debris may collect where air cannot lift away debris. We recommend occasionally cleaning these areas to keep Leaf Relief working properly".

And I will emphasize that this disclaimer has very rarely applied (if at all) in my own personal dealings with over 1000 customers and zero complaints with the BBB.

2) When it clogs, and it does clog, it will overflow over the lip of the gutter;

Please provide proof that Leaf Relief has clogged or that a gutter has clogged (over and above the disclaimer).

3) And the 10 year no-clog warranty is for the INTERIOR of the gutter only, and does not warrant that the gutter protection product won't clog.

Please provide proof that Leaf Relief has clogged over and above the mentioned disclaimer.

Yes Alcoa does offer a 10 year (interior) no clog warranty. Looking at your web site, I see no mention of an interior or exterior no clog warranty. The only warranty I see is for defects in material or workmanship. So, if I was a consumer which one would I choose if both products were about the same price (it's a no brainer)?

While we are on the subject of facts, I think I'll list a few facts, for folks, backed with evidence. Your product is a reverse curve product like many of the other products out there.

You claim your reverse product will handle 6" of rain water per hour. Alcoa's Leaf Relief (Gutter Clean Systems) system has been tested and handled 32.9 inches of rain water per hour (based on a 20' run). Source - Intertek Testing Services, NA LTD. - An independent accredited labratory.

Reverse curve products have been known to produce abnormal amounts of icecicles in cold climates, creating slippery spots on driveways and sidewalks. Check out the Garden web and folks that are commenting on their results with reverse curve products:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/repair/msg0907050224523.html?15

Click here and compare reverse curve systems with the Alcoa Leaf Relief system:

http://www.freefilehosting.org/public/1623/10%20reasons%20to%20choose%20Leaf%20Relief.pdf

Folks, if you ever get the opportunity to see an in home presentation of these reverse curve products on a gutter, take a piece of paper and rip it up into little pieces. Take the reverse curve sample under your sink and run water on top of the product and drop the small pieces of paper on the sample. I won't tell you where the paper goes, you can post it on here and tell me. Just imagine if the paper were a leaf or some other debris.

And finally Tim, if you want to open this can of worms any further, just keep posting and I'll keep responding.

Have a great weekend, and I'm sure I'll be hearing from you soon.

H.S.


tgstaub

06:05AM | 04/03/06
Member Since: 08/20/04
13 lifetime posts
H.S.

Actually, according to the original data from Alu-Rex, the maker of Gutter Clean and the licensor of the product to Alcoa, it will handle 305" per hour.

Much like a clean screen, it actually has a siphoning effect which pulls the water down into the gutter.

"Reverse curve" products can rarely handle more than 8" per hour. Of course, the average rainfall in the U.S. is only 30-40" per year . . . and only Louisiana gets more than 6" of rain . . . per month.

Leaf Relief is an excellent product when it is clean and free of debris. Alcoa is a superb company with great marketing and distribution, and they clearly have VERY loyal employees.

Thanks, H.S.

Tim

HenryStaley

03:55PM | 04/03/06
Member Since: 03/25/06
4 lifetime posts
Hello Tim,

The data that you mention is on the Alu-Rex.com web site. And you are right that is what is reported. There are conflicting reports about the data, when it comes to water flow. Alu-Rex reports 301" and Alcoa reports 32.9" see their brochure:

http://www.freefilehosting.org/public/1415/leaf%20relief%20brochure.pdf

I actually called the Alcoa headquarters to clear up this conflict and I was told to use the 32.9", so I would rather report lower rather than higher. I'm not sure why this conflict exists but I hope they clear it up. Either way it handles alot of water as does your product.

I don't know if you were implying that I am an Alcoa employee, but I'm not, just a loyal contractor that believes in what I install.

Look Tim, I am not trying to create any enemies, I just get irked when I see a product that I install get picked on. Plus the person that posted the original comment about Leaf Relief is a friend of mine too. No hard feelings!

Good luck with your product launch in May.

H.S.

newyorkone

12:08PM | 07/17/06
Member Since: 07/16/06
1 lifetime posts
H.S.

I was wondering if I could contact you. I am in the New York area and was wondering if you could recommend a local installer. I have been searching forever for a gutter guard system and I am very interested in the Alcoa one and would like to talk to you more about it. Makes me feel better about it before I plunk down all that money. Thanks in advance.

S.W.

jon6336

07:56AM | 07/21/06
Member Since: 07/20/06
1 lifetime posts
I have been looking for gutter protection for a long time, and I found it about two years ago. It's a product called "Gutter-Care" The website is: www.gutter-care.com. I have been very very happy with the product. It's another open pore foam product but it goes over the hanger on the gutter. I got it installed for about 10 bucks a foot, with professional installation and cleaning and a 25 year no clog guarantee.
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