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Silvir

08:27PM | 06/24/05
Member Since: 06/24/05
2 lifetime posts
Bvlawn
Hello all I have tried to get a reply with this question on a number of sites. Hope it works here.

I am presently constructing a deck using .40 PT ACQ lumber and using G185 rated connectors and HDG nails. I was wondering about corrosion rates. The PT boards were purchased still wet from a local lumberyard a few days ago. My concern is when I repositioned a fastner due to a mistake, I noticed that the nails had turned a dark grey where they had been in the wood and a slight coloration on the side of the wood that touched the tie for just two days. Will this continue or is it just an indication of intial corriosion that will abate once the boards are air dried? Im hoping I am just worrying about nothing. My first deck! Thanks

homebild

04:22AM | 06/25/05
Member Since: 01/28/03
693 lifetime posts
As long as both your hangers and your fasteners are both approved for use with ACQ lumber, you have nothing to worry about.

JayF

06:04AM | 06/27/05
Member Since: 11/19/02
59 lifetime posts
The G-185 connectors are definitely what you should be using. The "HD" (heavy-duty?) galvanized nails you're using could be subject for debate. How did they come packaged? If they don't have 3 times the zinc that the "old" galvanized nails used to have, you may have issues. Especially if a nail manufacturer has 'moved out' old stock under the auspices of being 'new stock'. Not that I would suggest that happens or anything.

For others who are contemplating a treated deck: Don't mix Galvanized fasteners or connectors with stainless steel materials. That will also promote galvanic corrosion.

Silvir

06:37PM | 06/30/05
Member Since: 06/24/05
2 lifetime posts
We had a rain yesterday and some chemicals leached out of the PT posts. The post connectors on the bottom have a white powder on their surface ... but I will keep my eye on it over the years. Maybe stainless steel fastners will become cheaper! I did get a reply from an engineer of the hardware manufacturer (Strongtie) and he stated they had similar problems. They tested their products at 80 degrees with 80 percent humidity. And he did state they couldnt guarantee their product unless it was stainless, kinda leaves you hanging in areas where the stores dont stock stainless. Just glad my wife said "Hey look at that sign about corrosion." Almost bought the wrong hardware from the getgo.

Altereagle

08:32PM | 06/30/05
Member Since: 12/27/02
543 lifetime posts
Also electroplated galvanized nails for nail guns shouldn't be used with the new copper treatments.

http://www.altereagle.com/

http://decks-ca.com

http://kingofcrown.com

Alter Eagle Construction & Design

bravey

07:06AM | 07/01/05
Member Since: 06/23/04
162 lifetime posts
I attended a Southern Wood Conference recently and one topic of discussion was fasteners in treated woods. When using fasteners in wood containing ACQ (alkaline copper quat), CA (copper azole), or BORATES The Southern Pine Association currently recommends using fasteners that are a) hot dipped galvanized meeting ASTM A-153, b) 800 series stainless steel type 304 or 306, or c) alloy electro-plated. They didn't explain exactly what alloy electropolating was, but it is NOT electrogalvanizing. The speaker recommended using stainless steel fasteners. My experience is that stainless steel fasteners break off easier than other types, so you might want to predrill the holes. Hot dipped galvanizing is a much heavier coating than electrogalvanizing but I am not aware of screws being available with this coating and if they were, they would be very difficult to drive. The speaker was noncommittal on powder coated fasteners and sated that the coating was often breached during application. For connection plates such as Simpson brackets, they recommended only stainless steel. Hope this helps.

Regards

Altereagle

09:15AM | 07/04/05
Member Since: 12/27/02
543 lifetime posts
The Southern Wood Conference is wrong or misquoted then, do NOT use electroplated nails, in almost all of the country the inspector will not accept them in contact with the new treatments, ie Decks.

There are two ASTM standards that apply—A-153 for fasteners and A-653 for connectors and sheet products, both are minimun tests, and we really need a new standard.

That said there are manf. that offer an alloyed, electroplated coating for nails, screws that they say will work with the new acq. So find out from your local building dept. if they will accept these type of fasteners... most won't.

Electro-Plating. (which makes those pretty, shiny nails)

Nails put into an electrolytic solution Electro-plating of nails is performed by placing them in a basket into an electrolytic solution so that a thin film of zinc is deposited by an electrical current from zinc anodes onto the surface of the nails. Although electroplated nails are beautiful and shiny, it is not feasible economically to build up a heavy enough coating to make this type of nail dependably corrosion-resistant for outdoor use. The thin zinc coating soon oxidizes away so that electro-plated nails normally rust quickly upon exposure to the weather… just ask any experienced siding applicator. In short, plated nails have good holding power from clean threads, but they do not have the heavy zinc coating needed to avoid rusting and staining.

http://www.mazenails.com/hdgspecs.htm

Bottom line: Find out from your local building dept. if they will accept these type of fasteners used with the new deck pt wood... most won't.

http://www.altereagle.com/

http://decks-ca.com

http://kingofcrown.com

Alter Eagle Construction & Design

bravey

07:09AM | 07/05/05
Member Since: 06/23/04
162 lifetime posts
Altereagle, I believe you and I and the Southern Wood Conference are in agreement on the issue of fastener types. I was refering to their comments on "alloy electroplating" which is a coating of some type of special alloy rather than just zinc. Althoug zinc is the most common coating, many different coatings can be applied by the electroplating process including special alloys. My personal view is that ANY applied coating is likely to be damaged by the screwing process thus exposing the fastener to oxidation. I use only stainless steel screw fasteners in my treated wood projects. It costs more, but I never worry about corrosion.

Regards

ghost13

12:53PM | 07/13/05
Member Since: 07/12/05
1 lifetime posts
just had a call friend that i did a deck for

he is wondering about the "black spots" surrounding the galvi nails that I used and rust developing on the heads. I've never had this happen before.

Just got these nails for my gun recently gotta check the exact type though when i get home.

Here's what bothers me - only the horizontal surfaces are having a problem, this is not happening in any place on any of the vertical surfaces.

also he has since put up a "kiddie" pool on the deck that does leak but the spots are on the hand rails too but not on the spokes or any of the 1x3 supports or the joists?

anyone got any ideas? Its all pressure treated lumber

thanks

Altereagle

06:59PM | 07/17/05
Member Since: 12/27/02
543 lifetime posts
You'll find that the horizontal surfaces retain moisture more readily than the vertical surfaces. The electrolysis from the high copper content will be more extreme with a catalyst like water enhancing the reaction. Also with the extra amount of water from the pool you may not even be getting a dry cycle?

http://www.altereagle.com/

http://decks-ca.com

http://kingofcrown.com

Alter Eagle Construction & Design
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