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waterguy

01:09PM | 03/10/05
Member Since: 03/06/05
10 lifetime posts
I know what he's getting at.Your copper lines should be grounded if not you could create an electrochemical reaction with would coorde your copper lines.I think now they usually ground copper lines to the circuit box ground bar.

Gary Slusser

05:20PM | 03/10/05
Member Since: 02/17/04
112 lifetime posts
Water is either hard or soft. The hardness can be measured and if there is any, the water is hard. Softness can not be measured, and removing hardness does not change the water's aggressiveness or corossiveness because if any change in the TDS, it will be higher after ion exchange softening.

Anyone stating that ion exchange softening or a water softener causes damage to copper tubing should be asked for the chemistry behind the claim. Does anyone here know what it is?

There are many causes of pinholes in copper tubing. Such as, improper reaming of tubing ends. Excessive water velocity and soldering flux. High DO (dissolved oxygen), CO2, chlorides etc. and bacteria, electric grounds such as TV, phone etc. and use of the service line as the building's ground electrode. Also low pH naturally soft water with a low TDS and alkalinity. While I'm probably forgetting a few other causes.

The US EPA and the vast majority of states state that the acceptable range for pH is 6.5-8.5. Although 6.5 pH is fairly acidic.

Gary

Quality Water Associates

Crazytime3

02:11AM | 03/11/05
Member Since: 03/05/05
7 lifetime posts
The test results from the water being retested were good, pH was 7.4 - 7.5 through the house and at the well. Hardness was 22gpg was 17 in 2002. total iron was .2 ppm

I discussed the issue about oxygenated water as every well has that or other gasses ie Cd. Was told there is not much you can do about that. If there was a problem with oxygenated water I would have had problems with the other living quaters attached to the same well that has been here longer than the home.

I was told to check for any copper touching concrete, which I was here and have to belive there is none. All the copper lines were sleeved in plastic. UNLESS SOMEWHERE THE REBAR STAKES THEY USED TO HOLD THE PLUMBING IN PLACE IS TOUCHING THE COPPER LINE. Also check for dissimilar metals like the galvanized piece from the hot water heater to the copper pipe to the home. (this does show signs of corrosion but the plumber does not belive that is the problem.

Third thing is a defect in the copper and the only way is to have the copper pipe tested --- I am still looking for a place to do that.

I am still looking for the cause.

waterguy

03:04AM | 03/11/05
Member Since: 03/06/05
10 lifetime posts
Gary not trying to step on any toes or get into an arguement. I'm neither for or against water softners. I don't sell them so i tend to have a neutral veiw. I do believe many people buy them when they don't need them,but for the people who do need them they are a great treatment device. i only gave options of what may be the cause the problems, bases on info given. I'm sue if a copper pipe rep. was here he'd say copper pipe is never manufacture with bad runs.

I deal with millions gallons a day of treated water you may deal with a few gallons a day so I tend to take water tretment very seriously. Two men thru the epa & wqa did do a test a few years ago and said that they showwed no signs of water treated through a softner to be more corrosive, but that naturally soft water was still very corrosive. That was done when a very big name in the softner buisness was sued in a claass action lawsuit for the same problems, copper pipes splitting from corrosion. That very big name company settled for millions of dollars after those test. Evidently those results were not conlusive evidence.

The AWWA still in all their education books state that no water should ever be treated to 0 hardness for it corrosiveness and because its so expensive!

You have your opinion I have mine and we'll just have to agree to disagree. Everything else you stated was already stated right just wanted to clarify the position on softners.

Gary Slusser

10:04AM | 03/19/05
Member Since: 02/17/04
112 lifetime posts
Anyone can say and publish anything, so where is the chemistry to prove the claim the AWWA makes?

Are they misapplying the LSI? It was invented to determine only IF asbestos fiber reinforced cement distribution pipe would lose wall thickness, and in doing so release asbestos fibers into the water.

Gary

Quality Water Associates

BV000588

04:54PM | 03/15/13
What do you all think about relining copper pipes? I have had some yucky discolored water from the copper corrosion. Smeone suggested relining as opposed to redoing all my pipes which is really expensive and requires me to tear down walls. My friend suggested the benefits outweigh repiping. http://www.aceduraflo.com/epipe/benefits Any thoughts on this before I call a contractor to figure it out? It seems like it would be cheaper but not sure of the long term benefits.

Sylvan

08:26PM | 03/21/13
Member Since: 01/24/06
1566 lifetime posts
Me_office1
If the pressure is excessive then the velocity (FPS) could cause erosion or if the plumber used a self clean flux or did not ream the copper prior to inserting it into a fitting could all cause premature failure.

I use type L tubing for all above ground water lines and type K for below ground installations

You may want to call the CDA or copper knight in Florida (Bud Hartman)

Plumbing

Sylvan

08:26PM | 03/21/13
Member Since: 01/24/06
1566 lifetime posts
Me_office1
If the pressure is excessive then the velocity (FPS) could cause erosion or if the plumber used a self clean flux or did not ream the copper prior to inserting it into a fitting could all cause premature failure.

I use type L tubing for all above ground water lines and type K for below ground installations

You may want to call the CDA or copper knight in Florida (Bud Hartman)

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