COMMUNITY FORUM

MistressEll

08:23AM | 04/24/05
Member Since: 01/30/05
361 lifetime posts
Since first of all Natural Gas can ge a generic term for many different sub-types of Fuel Gas....lets get our terms clear.

Secondly, to be considered "sweet gas" the product could contain up to 5.6 percent of hydrogen sulfide (5.7% is the industry standard defining "sour gas").

Since copper is readily degraded in the presence of ANY hydrogen sulfide, copper, especially FLEXIBLE copper is a RISKY proposition.

I recall MANY years ago the aluminum industry promoted Aluminum wiring for use in homes. I still pity anyone who has a home with ANY aluminum branch circuits.

Remember the fiascos with gray potable plumbing as well?

Do you really want to be in the category of a class action or worse yet...being blown up/fire? Keep in mind that although MN allows, it requires the lines be TIN LINED. Can you imagine trying to justify the integrity of any flex copper connections, or bends? LMAO!

Not to mention that to PROPERLY BEND FLEX copper for ANY FUEL GAS situation, one must have the proper sized matching BENDING tool (so to install would cost the homeowner hundreds if not thousands in one-time use tools), and involves a HIGH degree of SKILL to do so PROPERLY.

Not to mention required coatings for exterior and burried applications, presure testing, etc. etc. etc. Frankly, I think its absurd for ANY DIY'er to consider copper ANYTHING for fuel gas applications, and find the liberal codes in some states to be a cheap "buckling under" to a financially free-spending lobbing industry. Not surprisingly The western states that first allowed this stupidity are copper minning states, trying to subsidize the dying US copper mining industry.

Also....in some states (mine included) YELLOW PAINTED COPPER ANYTHING means NON-POTABLE WATER.

For the DIY'er especially to an external BBQ Grill, go Black Pipe, period. You can rent a threading machine, or modify your plans to use "stock" pieces, or have your local box store cut and thread pieces to YOUR specifications. Simple, end of story.

Hey...remember all the nasty about those flexible brass connectors (copper content) that had a useful life of less than 15 years in "sweet gas" environments, and were allowed for connections? (failed whenever moved or crimped?)

Forget the flex copper, or copper period. That's my opinion, esp. for the DIY'er, and I'm sticking to it.

kerr7300

12:02PM | 04/24/05
Member Since: 04/01/05
47 lifetime posts
Erik.... TracPipe, Wardflex, GasTite are all corrugated stainless steel tubing with a plastic outer coating. I'd agree that I wouldn't use plastic for running gas lines inside a home. I only know of gas companies using this as a service into the new homes. Don't get me wrong.... Their is nothing wrong with black pipe. It is no differnce using corrugated stainless steel except what takes a full day to pipe out a home, takes only a couple hours to pipe it out with TracPipe. Like I said, everyone should check for local codes on soft copper for local codes vary from place to place. By the way one must also certify in corrugated stainless gas lines before they can purchase it anyway. Each has their preferences and I respect that in all plumbing contractors choices. I estimate that it is now about a 50/50 market place in the Baltimore Metro market.

kerr7300

12:19PM | 04/24/05
Member Since: 04/01/05
47 lifetime posts
Your article is referencing corrugated soft copper and not type L or K. Yes, their were issues involving brass gas connectors because the corrugations were stamped so thin. Check this article out.

http://www.ccbda.org/publications/pub14E/14e-Section1.html

It is always one's choice to hang onto the old ways. You can always hold onto black steel and your herringbone wiping cloths as long as you wish while the world moves on. If that is what you believe than stick with it and be happy. It's just while you are spending 8 hours to pipe out a home and the next guy does it in three hours and makes the same amount of money. The difference is that he is going to another job or two and is even making more money in a day.

MistressEll

12:34PM | 04/26/05
Member Since: 01/30/05
361 lifetime posts
He's a DIYer asking for best advice. I think any DIYer can handle black pipe with minimal training,

Copper is quite another story, requiring special bending tools for EACH size pipe, and lots of experience. Esp for a remote outside and burried application, I think even suggesting copper was not wise.

However, it is always nice to learn something "new", but I expect copper fuel gas piping will go the way of other supply industry driven "new products", and you'll be back to black pipe in another 5-15 years, when home insurers start building up huge claim volumes with corrosion failures.

JMHO. Best of luck to you.

bravey

01:02PM | 04/26/05
Member Since: 06/23/04
162 lifetime posts
In our area copper pipe is not permitted with natural gas. Natural gas often contains sulphur which reacts with the copper and can cause the piping to become brittle, deteriorate, and leak. It also causes a flaky film to form that falls away and clogs valves and other small orfices.

Regards

RayVinZant

04:39AM | 04/27/05
Member Since: 08/29/04
227 lifetime posts
I agree with MistressEll and Eric that I prefer steel, but on outside situations, I like galvanized rather than black. If its underground, wrapped joints. If copper is used, you have to make sure the unit can't move, or someone will damage it or kink it. I might consider copper on a fixed grill, but not a movable.

Raymond VinZant Plumbing Prof.

wwwlogsandgrillsdotcom

08:34AM | 02/18/06
Member Since: 02/17/06
19 lifetime posts
I would imagine your connection is a flared fitting instead of a quick connect fitting. If you DO have a quick connect fitting, you should buy a corresponding quick connect for your grill and it will mate up perfectly. If you do have a flared copper fitting, you should hard pipe (make a permanent connection) using an appropriate corresponding flared fitting on you grill side of the line.

Reggie

www.logsandgrills.com

Reggie Wilson

http://www.logsandgrills.com

Sylvan

01:17PM | 02/18/06
Member Since: 01/24/06
1512 lifetime posts
Me_office1
Local codes shall prevail THAT'S IT

Copper is an approved material for LPG in many areas

Black pipe is great BUT like any other plumbing material has its limitations FOR EXAMPLE

Black pipe shall not be used out doors exposed to the elements unless protected painted or covered with coal tar enamel.

ACTUALLY some codes even require galvanized piping out doors for gas.

To arbitrarily say copper is not to be used on gas is not true, how about medical gases?

The NFPA 54 and the AGA and ANSI Z223.1 all have provisions for "copper tubing" to be used for gas including Natural but again local codes shall prevail.

A lot of model codes with local provisions added in do allow copper tubing.

Depends on acidic content, pressures and HJA

wwwlogsandgrillsdotcom

07:37PM | 04/20/06
Member Since: 02/17/06
19 lifetime posts
It is true that copper tubing is not allowed in many places for use with natural gas.

If it is in your area, then I would imagine you have a flared fitting on the gas supply line. You need to get a flare to 3/8" fitting that should connect to your supply side portion of the quick connect fitting. That would allow you to make your connection.

Reggie

Reggie Wilson

http://www.logsandgrills.com
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