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Billhart

03:46PM | 09/06/06
Member Since: 04/25/05
1916 lifetime posts
Bvplumbing
Went to install a new toilet on this tile job and one of the bolts in the flange was spining. The other one held fine.

Went and got a 5/16 bolt, but the T-flange was still too short and it would spin.

Tried it in one of the other slots, just to check and it spun in their too.

This is old brass flang with lead pipe bend over the flang. (1970)

I checked at Lowes to see if they have any "special" bolts but did not see any. Tried the bolt with their brass flanges. The same problem.

Too later for a real plumber supply or specialty store (The Plumbers Friend). But I will try those tomorrow.

I looked at a repair flange. But the one that I saw was just a flat plate with screw holes and a keyhole slot for the bolt. But I did not see any kind of flange or grove that would keep the head of the t-bolt from turning. And it would be a pain to install.

But do they make a the bolts with a bigger head. Or one where the top (threaded side) of the t-flange has a projection so that it locks in the slot instead of against the side.

After I got home I was thing that I could use visegrips to hold the bolt after I finger tightened the nut.

That that would make it a pain for the next person.

BTW, the old toilet was a 4 bolters. But they where all corded away.

Sylvan

04:09PM | 09/06/06
Member Since: 01/24/06
1507 lifetime posts
Me_office1
HI Bill, A few years back one of my EX supply houses sent me foreign made flange floor bolts not the Hercules brass ones I ordered.

I removed the broken toilet, removed the old wax gasket, etc., and set the new WC on the new bolts as I was making the 2nd bolt up it just started spinning and I had to take up the WC to find the bolt flange just separated from the threads.(weaker then the darn china)

About the spinning bolt in jobbing this is very common as a lot of the mansions I do work in were built around 1922 with all origional brass floor flanges and lead bends are in pristine condition.

To stop the bolts from spinning and rather then use vise grips (great tool by the way)

I found by soldering the bolts to the flange making sure the roughing is right on and the flange is not only soldered to the lead bend but actually anchored to the floor so in case there is a rocker in the house the water closet wont seperate the flange from the lead.

I would use 40 - 60 solder as it has a melting point lower then 50 -50 and should give out before the wiped joint of the lead bend / floor flange in case someone trys to animal the wc up


Billhart

01:48PM | 09/07/06
Member Since: 04/25/05
1916 lifetime posts
I hae 37/63 solder that is used for electronics. That has the lowest melting temp of any.

But I did not want to get next to that thing with any heat.

It is strange setup. The lead pipe is straight, only about 12-15" and then goes into CI.

the lead is only beat over the "bevel" part of the flang. It was not solder. Which was good because it was a little high and I was able to lightly tap around the flang and get it to separate go move down. Dropped it about 1/4".

But joind in the side are wiped lead connections for lead pipe from the lav and the tub. Some thing done for the master 3/4 bath.

Now this is a 1200 sq ft home, built in 1970. Really surprised that lead was used then.

Also the old toilet (4 bolter) did not have a wax ring. It was set what I think was plumbers puddy. It was dry and clumbly. Don't think that it was plaster. Not hard enough.

Anyway I was not sure if trhere was enough space, but I ran a nut down over the flange and that worked.

I was all set with two nut on the top of the stud to lock jam them to hold the stud while I turned the nut over the flange. But the nut put enough pressure on the stud flange that it dug in place and did not turn.

If that did not work I was ready to use the visegrips.


Sylvan

02:32PM | 09/07/06
Member Since: 01/24/06
1507 lifetime posts
Me_office1
Hi again Bill, we must stop meeting like this.

What do you mean lead in the 1970s surprised you.... I STILL USE lead pipe(lead "D" 8 PSF)

Plastic I wont usefor several reasons, Cast is OK but not very unforgiving when it comes to mistakes in roughing measurements

The heat source for electrical type of solder with a rosin core one could use an electric soldering iron as I am only talking about a tiny bead of solder to prevent the bolt from moving no open flame in this case required and very little tensile strenth is required

About the straight lead pipe connected to the cast iron in cases like this where I have to do any modifications I burn the lead off the brass ferule going into the cast iron hub and then use a no hub coupling to attach either a no hub cast iron pipe with a quick set CI flange Or use a no hub coupling with a new piece of pre wiped straight lead and then solder a new brass flange to the new requirements.


Pipingdude

09:10PM | 09/10/06
Member Since: 09/06/06
11 lifetime posts
Gentleman, Gentleman, Gentleman,

Am I the only one who does this trick or is it so convoluted that only my twisted brain conceived such a thing.

When I have problems with the closet bolt spinning for toilet removal, I use my Dremel with a cutting wheel, albeit my Dremel is a Bosch pencil grinder spins at 34,000RPM. I use the same trick under sinks to remove stubborn faucets with corroded supply and mounting nuts. It's so much easier than a damn basin wrench.(Safety first remember goggles)

On installation no matter which way you orientate the floor flange, either to use the slots or just the perfectly centered bolt hole opening, I nut the closet bolt to the flange always keep in mind to use S/S or brass washer and nut. The thread must travel the entire length of the bolt, top to bottom.

The big problem is centering the bowl, to make it centered and squared to the wall you might need to do a few dry fits, as there is no play expect for the play in the bolt hole opening in the china bowl, also keep in mind when tightening, this is now a rigid connection, you will feel the bowl pulling down, but once you hit bottom you have hit bottom and an further tightening, well guess what ,,,bowl cracks.

As long as the flange is not broke, I have used this trick on PVC, Copper, CI bell and spigot and no hub.

I also use the pencil grinder to cut the excess off, to hell with that hacksaw or those snap off points on those chincey quarter inch closet bolts and sometimes you just can't get the stroke you need using a hacksaw on the 5/16.

As a side note, in regards to another post, I have seen plaster of paris used to set toilet bowls. It is used in conjunction with sheet lead to correct for any and all inconsistencies in the flooring to level the bowl.

Sincerely,

Jim

Sylvan

12:01PM | 09/11/06
Member Since: 01/24/06
1507 lifetime posts
Me_office1
Thank you Jim, live and learn every day..

"It is used in conjunction with sheet lead to correct for any and all inconsistencies in the flooring to level the bowl."


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