COMMUNITY FORUM

LarryG

02:01PM | 09/01/08
Member Since: 07/22/04
530 lifetime posts
Bvplumbing
pex piping.

yes or no?

Sylvan

12:55PM | 09/02/08
Member Since: 01/24/06
1548 lifetime posts
Me_office1
HELL NO

LarryG

01:23PM | 09/02/08
Member Since: 07/22/04
530 lifetime posts
what was being not the best day i ever had,you would not believe how i am smiling right now.

and you know i value your word as law and that's what i go by.

thanks again for the advice.

Sylvan

11:51AM | 09/04/08
Member Since: 01/24/06
1548 lifetime posts
Me_office1
Larry, thank you.. It was not that long ago there were articles about "state of the art" plastic piping failures and many plumbing contractors took a major hit when the law suits came down the pike.

Seems the manufacturer had very deep pockets and hired the best lawyers money could buy and the final out come was it was the installers fault as they installed the plastic wrong.

Although there was no "how to install directions" the installers still lost as they did not have enough money to fight the big guys.

Copper tubing like black steel has proven longevity.

The plastic failures are lawsuits looking for a place to happen as now plastic is considered carcinogenic and toxic waste etc.

Going with industry standards and a 5,000 + year track record Id play it safe.. Contact the CDA and let them give you specification this way you CYA

Sylvan

11:59AM | 09/04/08
Member Since: 01/24/06
1548 lifetime posts
Me_office1

LarryG

02:59AM | 09/05/08
Member Since: 07/22/04
530 lifetime posts
thanks again.

the free advice you give us is a gold mine.

Sylvan

08:53AM | 09/30/08
Member Since: 01/24/06
1548 lifetime posts
Me_office1
All is forgiven come on back to the PIPDL

Thinking like a contractor lets remember there are thousands of law firms looking to protect the victims of "state of the art failures"

http://www.lieffcabraser.com/hydronic-pipes.htm

Not that long ago I remember another plastic product failing

http://www.lawcash.com/attorney/3521/shell-oil-e-i-dupont-nemours-lawsuit.asp

Considering many large corporations have lawyers on staff it is quite easily to point a finger at a small contractor and blame them for not installing the product as per manufacturers specifications or the installer did not have proper training in basic heating etc.

My hydronic heating system started with coal and then switched to #2 oil and then I replaced the big cast iron boiler with two smaller ones connected to the original 80+ year old piping and the black steel schedule 40 is still in like new condition

With Green peace and recycling laws and "toxic" waste disposal If for no other reason copper is really easy to recycle, lasts for years has a 5,000 year track record and black steel is also very versatile.

The new generation of people entering the field, a lot have gone through high school where there was no pass or fail as people had to feel good about themselves and go to any fast food store and ask the server to make change without the use of the cash register or calculator.

To compensate for the lack of skill materials were made that are supposed to be easy to install require no knowledge of heat or friction losses and if the product fails the installer is totally responsible.

This is especially true for foreign imports as how do you collect from someone across the globe when their products give up the ghost?

I have nothing against new products but not for my accounts as I like proven quality and longivity.

Also burying piping when not necessary does not make to much sense to me knowing it can never be serviced once the concrete is poured.

What normally makes a great conductor of electricity is normally great for heating

Wood great insulator and protects against electric shock but not great for conducting heat transfer like flooring especially with carpeting over it.

Copper great conductor of electric and amazing heat transfer for copper tubing.

Cast Iron rads hold the heat and are quiet.

Seems when a law suit pops up the finger pointing starts and each manufacturer blames the other when it is so much easier to just go after the installer as they specified the product and installed it as home owners do not want to be bothered looking who did what.

All the victims know is they hired a heating guy ( normally non licensed) and the victims had a severe leak and their child is sick from the mold and the damage to the floors walls are in the thousands not including the art work and family heirlooms that are "priceless"

With copper /steel and even electric heating law suits are rare.

Even the Levitt houses that had in floor heating the problems did not show up for over 40 years as the copper was not protected properly and no one bothered to figure velocity erosion or the Ph of the water etc.

Still after 40 years I do not think the original installer could be held liable and plastic failures happened within months in some cases, not very comforting to the home/ building owners
10569-hi_harold
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