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TM83

11:31AM | 12/12/01
Member Since: 12/11/01
3 lifetime posts
Bvhvac
I would like an expert opinion on which product to use for my application. I am looking for a heating source for the office / bathroom / utility room area in my farm shop. The 3 rooms are connected together (door from one to the others-generally open) and the total area covered is 10'x30'. The ceiling height is 8' and the walls are R-19 or better. The large area of the shop is generally not heated and the office area is of a very "tight" construction. I am on an LP system. I am not in this building that much but need a way to keep the pipes from freezing and to provide adequate heat during the days when I am out there. I am in the Omaha, NE area and we do see our share of the cold.

My concerns are that there will be a lack of fresh air in this small, tightly enclosed area and that the moisture given off by a ventless system would be a problem. Are these concerns justified and would I be better off with a direct vent system. The fact that no electricity is needed is great since it's one less thing to worry about if the power fails. What size unit would I need for this application?

Thanks!

Iceman

12:11PM | 12/12/01
Member Since: 11/16/01
301 lifetime posts
Dear TM83,
In my opinion, you can go with a small hydronic system. From your measurments, you would need a small boiler, 550 BTU per hour output, 18 feet of baseboard and set it at 55 degrees when not in use. Forced venting should not be a problem as the venting is directed outside. Incase of a power outage, simply open the one zone valve you will need and the system will circulate by gravity. Make sure the baseboard is placed on the outside walls/ The formula for each room size is as follows. Multiply lgth. X width. for room area. Multiply that total X 3000.
Divide that total by the number of BTU per hour output and that will give you the amount of baseboard needed for each enclosure. Example: If you have a 10X10 room, you have 100 Sq. ft of area. Multiply 100x 3000 and you will get 300,00. Divide that by 550 (BTU per hour output), you will get 545.etc. The first three numbers will give you the amount of baseboard, ie. 6 feet to adequately heat that space. With an R factor of R-19 and good windows, you should have no problem. Note: For every 2 ft. in heighth over 10 feet, add 10%.
Hope I helped.
P.S. I've use hydronic systems for years and for me, there is no other option. However, If you have frequent power outages, go to a direct vent system.
Len

TM83

03:57AM | 12/13/01
Member Since: 12/11/01
3 lifetime posts
Thanks for the input. You'll have to excuse my ignorance in regards to hot water systems since in this part of the country we use forced air gas systems almost exclusively. I did live in an apartment in college that had a hot water baseboard system and it was a very nice heat although the temp was hard to regulate. I'm sure the systems are much better now since that was a long time ago.

What would a system like this cost and how much maintenance would it require? Cost is one appealing aspect of the direct vent and ventless systems. Even a forced air gas furnace would be relatively inexpensive at well under $1000. I'm just trying to weigh my options here and see what makes the most sense for this application. I also have to keep in mind (and my wife also is reminding me) that this is not my home but a shop where I am not able to spend a lot of time anyway.

This may be a dumb question, but I'll ask it. Is it possible to tie baseboard heaters in with the hot water heater that will be in the utility room. I assume I would need a suitable pump and some sort of thermostatic control. I've been debating the whole water heater issue also so using it as a heat source does have some appeal. Since the hot water may get used for a half hour per week it seems kind of wastefull to try to keep 40 gallons warm the rest of the time. I've looked at the tankless stuff but they are at least $300 over the cost of the conventional heater. This price difference would buy the LP for a lot of years. Any opinions on whether this may work?

Thanks!!

Iceman

10:36AM | 12/18/01
Member Since: 11/16/01
301 lifetime posts
Mr.K,
If you would read correctly you would see the example I gave was for a 10' x 10' room. Not 10' x 30'. My math is correct. I've been trained by Weil-Mc Clain in hydronic heating. I gave that example to show the formula. Don't get me wrong. Our goal is to help and opinions are good as they result in friendly conflict and better help to solve the problem. LOL
Len

Iceman

11:51PM | 12/18/01
Member Since: 11/16/01
301 lifetime posts
Mr. K,
That was 6 feet of baseboard for a 10x10 room.
Len

Iceman

10:39PM | 12/19/01
Member Since: 11/16/01
301 lifetime posts
Look at the "545". The 5 being the first number. The 45 being the second. 5 feet of baseboard. The 45 will tell one to go to the next highest number, which is 6 feet. Again that is the basic formula. Area X btu per hour output of the boiler divided by 3000 ( base number). The base number is always the same. I've used this formula for years and when matched against any other they always come out the same. Thats enough. End of disscussion. LOL
Len

radadis

07:12AM | 02/14/08
Member Since: 02/13/08
1 lifetime posts
Our heating boiler just broke during a very cold week and we had to replace it in a hurry. The plumbing company we called (M Stahl) recommended Weil-McLain CGi high efficiency direct vent through the wall boiler, which we bought. I want to mention that we do have a chimney.

Now I am extremely frustrated because it makes unbearable, terrible NOISE. It keeps us awake at night. It sounds like a powerfull vacuum cleaner. Nobody warned us about the NOISE. We called the company M Stahl that recommended and istalled the boiler. They told us that this is a normal operating noise and that I am exaggerating. Now we are also getting complains from our next door neighbors and they want to call KDKA about the noise. They cannot sleep because of it either.

I whish I was warned about the noise before making an important decision and a very expensive purchase. I hope my post will help other people buying a boiler.
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