COMMUNITY FORUM

kddj70

07:34PM | 11/28/06
Member Since: 11/28/06
2 lifetime posts
Bvelectrical
Hi

I am replacing all of the appliances in my kitchen.

Currently I have:

-cook top – attached on 220V, 2x40A beakers

-oven – attached on 220V, 2x30A beakers ( red, red, white wiring)

-fridge – attached to the outlets on 110V, 30A beaker

I am buying:

-slide-in range – I will attach it to the old cook-top wiring

-dishwasher – “15A, 110V” required

-microwave – ‘15 OR 20 A, 120 Volts’ required (1.2kW)

-fridge – ‘15 OR 20 Ampere, 115 Volts GROUNDED CIRCUIT IS REQUIRED’

-garbage disposal

The question I have is what are the optimal, save, and legal electrical connections. I am planning to convert the 220V (3x30A beakers) into 2 x 30A x 110V and I have an extra 30A beaker for the outlets. I don’t want to install new breakers.

Choice 1

–dishwasher + garbage disposal on one 30A breaker

–microwave on the second 30A breaker

–fridge attached to the countertop outlets – 30A breaker

Choice 2

–dishwasher + garbage disposal on one 30A breaker

–microwave + fridge on the second 30A breaker

Choice 3

-dishwasher + microwave disposal on on 30A breaker

–garbage disposal + fridge on the second 30A breaker

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

DJ


doug seibert

03:19AM | 11/29/06
Member Since: 08/10/02
842 lifetime posts
You can NOT use the existing 30 amp breakers to supply power to ANY of your appliance choices.......

"...measure once.....cut twice....throw that one away and cut a new one...."

joed

04:09AM | 11/29/06
Member Since: 09/17/02
524 lifetime posts
You can not put duplex receptacles on a 30 amp circuit. You must change that breaker to match the wire size. 15amp for #14, 20 amp for #20.

You could try and reuse the 30 amp wires but it must be changed to a 20amp breaker. It will very difficult to attch receptacles to the #10 wire on the old 30 amp circuit.

You should pull new cables for the new circuits.

I recommend

1 15 amp for fridge

1 20 amp for microwave.

1 20 amp for dishwasher and garbage disposal.

Replace the existing 30 amp receptacle circuit with at least one 20 amp circuit. Kitchen counter receptacle can not be on the same circuit as any other receptacles or lights.

joed

04:11AM | 11/29/06
Member Since: 09/17/02
524 lifetime posts
You can not put duplex receptacles on a 30 amp circuit. You must change that breaker to match the wire size. 15amp for #14, 20 amp for #12.

This is a correction. I made a typo on the 20 amp wire size.


Billhart

06:17AM | 11/29/06
Member Since: 04/25/05
1915 lifetime posts
"-oven – attached on 220V, 2x30A beakers ( red, red, white wiring)"

I see no mention of a ground. Without a ground that circuit can only be used as a grandfathered in range/cooktop/oven circuit.

Even changing the breakers to 20 amps you can't convert it into 120 volt circuits without the equipment grounding conductor.


kddj70

10:40AM | 11/29/06
Member Since: 11/28/06
2 lifetime posts
"-oven – attached on 220V, 2x30A beakers ( red, red, white wiring)"

Even changing the breakers to 20 amps you can't convert it into 120 volt circuits without the equipment grounding conductor.

Hi Billhart

Thanks. The kitchen is very old and I don’t have ground wire. I was thinking of installing a separate ground wire attached to the copper piping for the cold water.

After swapping the old 2x 30A to the new 2x 20 amps breakers, can I use one of the red wires as hot and the white as neutral + ground for one of the new 20A circuits, and the second red + white + ground for the second 20A circuit?

Thanks


Billhart

11:25AM | 11/29/06
Member Since: 04/25/05
1915 lifetime posts
In general ALL wires need to be run in one cable (or condit). There is on exception, but only for a ground wire, but that case does not apply here so I am not going to mention it.

But it is never legal to run a ground wire to a "near by cold water pipe". In the case where a separate ground wire can only be run to the a part of the ground electrode system. Depending on all of the details that might include the first 5 ft of where it enters the house or might not be on any part of the cold water pipe.

You really have way too many problems with this to make simple fixes. Need to get an electrican to look at all of the kitchen circuits and see what has to be done. Most like a completely set of new cable will be run for all of the electrical requirements.


joed

05:25AM | 11/30/06
Member Since: 09/17/02
524 lifetime posts
What is your location? In Canada it is legal to run a ground wire to the copper pipe if the pipe is properly grounded/bonded.

I don't think I would do it. You need other circuits anyway. Just pull all the wires at the same time.
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