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rob banks

09:11AM | 03/10/03
Member Since: 03/09/03
4 lifetime posts
Bvbrush
Hi, We had a soot damage to our house after a kitchen "incident" (piece of plastic burned on the stove). We cleaned all walls and cabinets with TSP (after which stains were still visible), and painted most surfaces, without primer, to good results.

However, paint didn't stick well to the the semi-gloss paint on the kitchen cabinets, so we used some Behr oil based primer on it, which stuck well and covered all stains completely. However, now I'm trying to put latex semi-gloss over the primer, and it doesn't stick well at all. I have to go over it again and again as it is drying to get the paint to not bead up. It's an incredible pain and I'm sure this is not the way its supposed to work. I mean, given that the primer covered all the soot stains just fine, why in the world wouldn't the paint stick to it? Is there anything I can do?

I really don't want to have to get another kind of primer and do another intermediate coat, although I don't mind changing the semi-gloss to a different paint (maybe to an oil based one?) Still, I'd really just like to know what is going on. The semi-gloss is kelly-moore (not cheap stuff at all).

MrPaint

10:43AM | 03/10/03
Member Since: 02/03/03
196 lifetime posts
Rob......you are always better to stick with a "system" ie - same companies primer and finish. However - since you haven't done that - it is a moot point. Keep it in mind for next time.

How long did the primer sit before you tried to topcoat it? Some primers have a critical re-coat time - some as short as 8 hours - AFTER which they become too hard to recoat!

I am not familiar with the Behr primer - but since it has stuck - but nothing sticks to it - I think that may be your problem.

Sanding and recoating with the primer would likely work - but I would call Behr and see what they recommend.

Mr. Paint

Mustang

11:42AM | 03/10/03
Member Since: 01/22/02
101 lifetime posts
Correct me if I'm wrong in understanding you. You are topcoating, but before the topcoat is completely dry you go over it again and that's when it peels. Am I correct? If this is the case, paint while it is in the process of drying will go thru what I call a plastic stage, where if you fool with it it will lift. You need to paint, and keep moving forward, trying as little as possible to go back over what you already painted. Let the paint dry, it will stick.

MrPaint

12:30PM | 03/10/03
Member Since: 02/03/03
196 lifetime posts
Mustang - The primer is stuck - the topcoat won't stick to it.

I'll be you money he waited too long to apply the topcoat.....see my original reply

Mr. Paint

Mustang

01:53PM | 03/10/03
Member Since: 01/22/02
101 lifetime posts
Yep, I know that, the topcoat isn't sticking to the primer. I think he is going back over the topcoat while it is semidrying, sometimes when you do that, the topcoat will lift. If he topcoats and doesn't go back over things, his paint will stick just fine.
But you do have a point, we don't know how old the primer is, I'm assuming it isn't that old. If it is, god only knows what could have already gotten on it and all bets are off.

rob banks

02:30PM | 03/10/03
Member Since: 03/09/03
4 lifetime posts
The only reason I am going back over it is because that is the only way to get it to stick at all. When I first put it on, it goes on smoothly, and then within a minute or two starts beading up. If I keep brushing or rolling over it as it gets tacky, I can eventually get it to stick (but that is a real pain, obviously).

The primer dried for several days. I'm surprised that would be a problem...

MrPaint

02:55PM | 03/10/03
Member Since: 02/03/03
196 lifetime posts
Rob.........you have run into "critical recoat" - that is what happens - the paint just sort of flows back in on itself.

My advice (and again - check with Behr) would be to sand the primer (120 grit) damp wipe - then apply another coat of the same primer.

Recoat within the minimum recoat time.

A good many "sealer" primers have critical recoat times - Kilz is especially bad - 24 hours - MAX!

This is common in these type of products.


Mr. Paint

rob banks

07:10PM | 03/10/03
Member Since: 03/09/03
4 lifetime posts
I have to sand and re-primer the whole thing??? Man, this sucks!

It doesn't say anything about "critical recoat time" on the primer can. Oh, well...

Thanks...not exactly the answer I wanted to hear, but I appreciate your help nonetheless!

rob banks

09:17PM | 03/10/03
Member Since: 03/09/03
4 lifetime posts
Ok, well I went and looked at the primer can and indeed it does say how long you have before painting the topcoat....but it says 30 days!

I don't get it.....

MrPaint

01:07AM | 03/11/03
Member Since: 02/03/03
196 lifetime posts
Rob - I am a firm believer in reading directions - but sometimes they are wrong. Remember - directions are often written by marketing and legal - not tech. There can be typos, as well as changes to a product thta make the directions incorrect.

The only other thing that I could think of that could cause your problem is a topcoat that has poor wet adhesion. You mentioned that your topcoat was a fairly good one - and by what you describe - it sounds like the primer to me. Poor wet adhesion is usually only a problem in very inexpensive paints.

Mr. Paint

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