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knieder1

06:23AM | 03/23/07
Member Since: 03/22/07
2 lifetime posts
Bvflooring
Our shower has a tile on the floor and there are a few places were the grout needs to be replaced. I've removed the grout but I've noticed that there is water under some of the tiles near the space where the grout was chipped away. I was surprised that there was still water there because the shower hasn't been used in 5 days. Is it okay to go ahead and regrout the shower or is the water under the tile a problem?

flooringworldDOTorg

10:46AM | 03/23/07
Member Since: 10/28/05
312 lifetime posts
movement causes cracks in grout and debonds tile.

tap on the tiles to see if any are hollow sounding or loose.

if so, replace the loose tiles.

if many of them are loose, your problem might be more complex and demolition and re-installation could be needed to fix properly. This means there could be a problem with the mudbed system itself causing movement in the tile system that is cracking out grout, debonding tile, and allowing water to penetrate.

If the tiles are all solid, the water could have came from seeping into cracked grout joints, but then one has to ask where the movement came from to begin with.

A common problem many have is that the perimeter is grouted where the floor meets the walls. This is improper. Transitional areas such as this should be caulked, not grouted. The manufacturer of your grout should make a color coded caulk that you can purchase for areas such as this.

That said, caulk will not adhere to a wet or damp surface. So it needs to be dry. Let it dry out before caulkng and grouting.

_____________________________________________

There are two ways to do any job.

The right way and the wrong way.

Do it right everytime.

_____________________________________________

http://flooringworld.org/

_____________________________________________

knieder1

11:19AM | 03/23/07
Member Since: 03/22/07
2 lifetime posts
Thanks for the information. None of the tiles are loose so it sounds like we just need to wait for it to dry out. All of the corners are grouted not caulked so was this all done wrong originally?

Tileguybob

01:13PM | 03/23/07
Member Since: 07/03/05
283 lifetime posts
If the cement under the shower floor tiles is wet after five days of non-use I have a strong hunch that there is noo preslope built in under the tiles. A preslope is something that is actually in the plumbing code books but nobody ever checks for it and most builders and tile installers will blink at you if you asked them about it.

Let me explain it this way.

The base floor under your shower is flat, be it plywood over wood framing or a cement slab. When the shower stall was built and framed out a plastic liner or fiberglass was put down over the flat floor and wrapped up the walls about 8" or so. This captures any and all water that gets through the grout lines and seeps into the cement under the tile. The water should go to weep holes built into the flange of the drain assembly that is sandwiched between the mud bed and the liner. Because the liner is laid flat the water lays there too because there is nothing to induce it to go to the weep holes. If the liner were pitched 1/4" per foot from the drain, the water would find its way out and while the mud bed may feel damp it would be from recent use and not residual standing water. Your tiled floor in the shower is pitched to carry water to the drain so you dont have standing wtaer remaining on the floor. The same principle would apply to water getting to the mud bed and the liner under the mud. I have torn out mud beds that were not presloped and not used for weeks and they were still dripping wet. Its a good home for mold to fester in. The tile debonded most likely because the mud bed went soft in that spot, not usually because of the thinset letting go.

The only other way for water to stay in there if a preslope is present is for the mud bed to have clogged up the weep holes. When we install new beds we put a layer of pea gravel around the flange to keep the mud from packing into the holes and defeating their purpose.

flooringworldDOTorg

01:26AM | 03/24/07
Member Since: 10/28/05
312 lifetime posts
yes, it was done wrong if it was grouted and not caulked where the floor meets the walls.

All transitional areas that can flex and move (corners where walls meet floors or ceilings and such) need to be caulked with a color coded sanded or unsanded caulk.

great posts tileguybob ... many excellent points.

_____________________________________________

There are two ways to do any job.

The right way and the wrong way.

Do it right everytime.

_____________________________________________

http://flooringworld.org/

_____________________________________________

iamthemouse

08:21AM | 04/02/07
Member Since: 04/01/07
2 lifetime posts
my question is, i have removed the tile from the mudbed. In doing so the corner of the mudbed broke off and the remainder of the mudbed is very uneven. What I need to know is how to repair the corner and what to use to do it, also what to use to get the floor even again for tile. It is spoped to the drain. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

flooringworldDOTorg

11:25AM | 04/02/07
Member Since: 10/28/05
312 lifetime posts
It really depends on the overall condition of the mud-bed.

If its cracking out, then the mud-bed totally needs ripped out and replaced.

if its in stable/sturdy condition, then you can fill in small voids with thinset mortar to smooth out any inconsistencies.

If the inconsistencies go deeper than one-half inch, then thinset needs to be applied ion layer no thicker than one-half inch so it doesnt shrink and crack ... OR ... use of another product like ardex k-15 or another non-shrinking cementious filler product.

You can always use portland cement based cement mix for this as well, but the cure time is alot longer.

I have heard some people use a fast setting hydraulic cement, but I ahve never tried it.

_____________________________________________

There are two ways to do any job.

The right way and the wrong way.

Do it right everytime.

_____________________________________________

http://flooringworld.org/

_____________________________________________

iamthemouse

08:17AM | 04/03/07
Member Since: 04/01/07
2 lifetime posts
overall the mudbed is in pretty good condition. What happened is when I was taking up the old tile with a chisel a chunk broke out of the corner. I have started to grind the old thinset of the slab and that is taking care of the majority of the uneveness. I have a bucket of hydraulic cement that I am going to try once i finish gringing the rest of the thinset off. Very time consuming. But I don't want to have a problem with getting the tiles level when reinstalling them. Thank you for your help.
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