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mcocooper

09:17AM | 05/31/05
Member Since: 05/30/05
12 lifetime posts
Bvroofing
We just got a new roof in January and after heavy rains yesterday, noticed the wall in our garage leaking (just as it did PRIOR to the new roof)...the roofer is coming over today to have a look at it but we weren't really pleased with his work the first time...Anyway, was wondering how do you determine where the leak is coming from? I have pictures, but don't know how to attach them....

There isn't a vent thru the roof or a weatherhead in the area....There is wet drywall on the wall and the ceiling but mostly the wall...when it rains hard, you can literally see it dripping down the wall...

There IS a valley or ridge where the leak seems to be...

If i look up water detection companies, nobody seems to do roofs--only plumbing, so am i stuck with whatever our roofer says?

dodgeroof

01:23PM | 05/31/05
Member Since: 03/27/05
95 lifetime posts
This is not at all unusual....having the SAME leak on a new roof.

Have run accross it hundreds of times over the years.

Most "roofers" are not really ROOFERS, but shinglers.

If you can post a couple pictures, both inside and out, and describe what area the pictures show, I might be able to tell you where to suspect the leaking at.

i know YAHOO lets you post pictures to your own page, for free, once regiserting...for free.

A roof CAN be your friend

mcocooper

04:51PM | 05/31/05
Member Since: 05/30/05
12 lifetime posts
ok, thanks for your response and for the Yahoo tip--hopefully i posted them right and you can see them:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/catherineallison/album?.dir=/b92f&.src=ph&.tok=phIm6EDBVQnoFCLY

Picture descriptions:

Inside garage: that's the "leaking" wall.

Inside garage2: is a closer up version...shows it also affects the ceiling

Inside garage3: this is another image but further out--it's almost impossible to see exactly how bad it is because of this AC vent thing in the way

Outside: exterior shot

Outside2: Zoomed in version with some explanations (the red lines are what the roofer did today--"caulk" with tar along the edges

Hope this helps you help me...and i absolutely agree with your comment that most roofers aren't really roofers but shinglers....actually our roofer came this afternoon to take a look and his diagnosis was to just apply tar through a caulk gun on the seam (see red lines in picture)...he didn't even go into the attic and see if it was wet....anyway, look forward to your comments....

dodgeroof

04:06AM | 06/05/05
Member Since: 03/27/05
95 lifetime posts
I'll check these photos again, later today.

But it's safe to say it's a flashing problem.

And, it looks like the valley hits the wall before it turns a corner, a common problem area because most "roofers" simply don't know what they're doing. But, like I said, I'll look at these later today and give you specific ideas/areas to check and possibly redo....or have redone.

A roof CAN be your friend

mcocooper

06:55AM | 06/05/05
Member Since: 05/30/05
12 lifetime posts
thank you--i thought you had forgotten about me! Will look forward to hearing your suggestions....

if you need different pictures, lemme know too and i'll be happy to take them and post

homebild

08:11AM | 06/05/05
Member Since: 01/28/03
694 lifetime posts
I agree with dodgeroof's analysis of the problem. It is likley a flashing problem.

But your repair may invlove more than flashing and could require having to pull off the snythetic stucco above all flashed areas if improper flashing was employed.

mcocooper

10:47AM | 06/05/05
Member Since: 05/30/05
12 lifetime posts
you said "likely" a flashing problem...how would you go about determining what exactly you need... I looked in the Yellow pages and anything even remotely applying to leaks is in reference to plumbing...should i have another roofer come and look? because it seems to me that my roofer's "fix" is just a patch and is treating the symptom and not the cure--i am interested in finding a cure and resolving the problem.

Still looking forward to dodgeroof's comments as to what to check and possible re-do.....

homebild

05:52PM | 06/05/05
Member Since: 01/28/03
694 lifetime posts
Dodgeroof can answer for himself and I am sure he will be helpful. In the interim I'll give some more comments and dodgeroof can add to or correct mine if he'd like.

Ok. Let's assume for a moment it is a flashing problem.

And let's assume the flashing was not put in correctly to begin with. This seems the case because this is an apparntly newer home and has been giving you trouble from the start.

The biggest problem you face is getting proper flashing installed to correct the problem.

The issue here is that flashing needs not only to cover or get interwoven into the shingles properly, but also it needs to get bent up behind the siding properly.

In your case, with synthetic stucco siding, this means that in order to put in proper flashing if you have bad flashing, you must remove all of the synthetic stucco on that part of the house above the flashing and that is not a roofing problem.

It is a specialty siding problem and most roofers (most anyone actually) won't wnat to have to get involved with a sider as well in order to correct the problem.

So immediately you need two trades people: roofers and siders if the flashing is faulty, improperly installed or non-existant. (no that NEVER happens...lol)

So this becomes a bigger job than just a simple roof repair under this scenario.

The second possible scanrio is that it isn't a flashing problem at all. Just a poor design problem.

Your roof system is already suspect what with all the intersecting roof lines. It certainly makes for an interesting appearance but it sure isn;t practical from a building or roofing point of view.

Dodgeroof already mentioned that the one valley appears to terminate improperly, but it isn't possible to veryify from the angles you've shown. If that is the case, however, repair may not be easily achievable and may require redesigning the valley and roof in the worst case scenario.

The thrid scenario is that this isn't a roof problem at all, but a typical synthetic stucco condensation nightmare problem.

You can do your own research by Googling 'synthetic stucco lawsuits' or 'DryVit lawsuits' to find all the home disasters that exist in North America from this type fo siding.

Put simply, synthetic stucco has been the ruin of more homes in North America than any other product in the last quarter century.

What happens is that improperly installed synthetic stucco that is badly sealed itself leaks and/or traps gaseous water that then condenses with no where to go but down...Down into the framing system, drywall, ceilings, insulations...

And houses have been completely destroyed by faulty installation of this product.

If you have condensation or leakage problems from snythetic stucco, you could be in BIG trouble and your insurer may not cover any of your damages.

I'd like to beleive this is simple flashing problem, and until I can see additional evidence hope it is.

But it could be an design flaw in the roof system or worse yet bad synthetic stucco and without a hands on examination of the house, it won't be possible for me or anyone else to tell from here.

"MY" suggestion is to get an architect or emgineer that specializes in roofing problems to come by and properly diagnose the problem.

It could cost you $500-$1000 but would be well worth the investment and peace of mind.

Piffin

06:43PM | 06/05/05
Member Since: 11/06/02
1284 lifetime posts
This is without a doubt a poor roof design to begin with. That is the primary reason for the original leak.

But it is nothing that could not be overcome with careful detailing in the installation. were I the roofer, there are things re the flashing and siding that would bee needing redone as part of the job if I were to be expected to do quality work and gaurantee it.

Unfortunately, there are far too many "roofers" who only care about how fast they can be done and gone and don't calculate for doing a harder one like this right.

I would recommend that you find a quality roofing company with integrity and have this section redone, including an underlay of ice and water shield, new flashings and siding replacement where needed.

Excellence is its own reward!


dodgeroof

03:34AM | 06/06/05
Member Since: 03/27/05
95 lifetime posts
Looked at your photos again....but without seeing the exact area, not just an upward looking view, I can't pinpoint anything. But even if I was THERE, looking at it, It might be the case where I was sure it was leaking due to the flashing work...but not be able to specifically pinpoint it. I would normally just figure what I'd need to charge in order to permnanently fix this leak, including total removal as needed of all adjacent areas, then there's no question it would be fixed. I tell you this NOT because I can travel hundreds of miles to repair something, but that you need to locate a roofer who specializes in fixing leaks. I've found over the years that most roofers do not mess with roof repairs beyond slinging a bit of goop here or there. We've long ago gotten into actually dismantling the problem areas, then re doing them. It's a different mindset than simply banging out one roof after the other.

So I'd recommend you start the tedious process of calling all the roofers you can, and questioning them about repairs....do they do them? HOW do they approach a needed repair? Can they guarantee the repair?

One last thing is that if the proper metal flashings, of sufficient width..length...etc. are not already installed behind the stucco, there is a way a permanent repair could be done using counter flashings installed directly to the face of the stucco. These would take the place of what the stucco is supposed to do, that is run over the flashings. The top edge of the counter flashing has a "trough" which holds caulking as the final seal. Around here, counter flashings installed onto the exterior of brick, wood, and stucco walls are common. They work fine, although the caulking might become a maintenance issue years down the road. The counter flashings are typically painted. They are seen....but don't really look bad at all...in my opinion. But, it's an alternative to having to tear oput a portion of the stucco

in order to install correct/sufficient flashings.

The real key to fixing your leak, after the area is removed, is in a redundant "system".

That is, after removal of roof materials from the gutter area...running up to the corner....around the backside going up to the wall....it would be a good idea to install an "ice$water" membrane prior to any flashings and shingles. Make this water-tight to begin with...then as the areas are put back together,

the use of extra-wide or over-sized flashings add a further protection from water migration....and of course carefull fabrication of the flashing corners {another common problem area}. It's really just about good workmanship.

So, when looking for a good roofer, think "craftsman"...because that's really what you need.

A roof CAN be your friend
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