07:18AM | 10/04/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
I recently bought an older home (1925) and have a problem with a toilet. I'm not sure of the age of the toilet, but I estimate it to be at least some decades old.

The problem is that there appears to be nothing to prevent the stopper pullchain from not only pulling open the flapper, but also pulling the flapper seat (with sealant putty) right out of the drainhole in the bottom of the tank. This happens consistently when the toilet is flushed.

The flapper and seat look of current replacement vintage. The flapper is hinged directly to the seat itself and this flapper/seat assembly is attached to the bottom of the overflow tube. There is a "complicated" metal assembly on the inside of the watertank at the flush handle. A chain connects a lever of this assembly to the flapper. There's nothing obvious about the flush handle assembly which would prevent the pulling of the chain to the point of pulling out the flapper seat.

Do I possibly have the wrong flapper assembly installed in this old toilet?

Any help appreciated.


07:27AM | 10/04/04
You have a fluidmaster flapper repair kit. Those older toilets (they flush) had a lift wire and tank ball system that would often hang-up and require jiggling. This fluidmaster kit is not one I use but other plumbers are installing them. If they come loose then just reinstall another like you would replacing just the flapper. They are not expensive. The trick is to get the existing seat dry, clean (sanded ?) and warm with a hair dryer.


08:46AM | 10/04/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
Thanks for the response.

Yes, now that you mention the name Fluidmaster I know I've seen these flapper/seal assemblies at the home supply stores.

However, I'm not confident that replacing the assembly with another or, just as well, I think, simply replacing the putty ring would be a long-term fix.

Should a new properly applied putty seal provide enough adhesion to hold up against the repeated yanking of the pull chain? Isn't there normally some other mechanism that prevents the chain from pulling beyond what's required to lift the flapper?

Further, do you have any suggestions for a superior flapper/seal mechanism?


09:19AM | 10/04/04
You can return to the lift wires and tank ball. You will need a guide for the wires that secures to the brass overflow tube.

However while I consider returning these toilets to their original parts system, other respected repair plumbers feel the fluidmaster approach has equal life if properly installed.

There is not something that keeps the trip lever from coming up too high except on the older Kohler's that have an 1 1/2" U brace off the trip lever at the tank connection.

The Fluidmaster system is the only one I know of that works. Most of us consider the fluidmaster ballcocks to be the best.


10:42AM | 10/04/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
Thanks very much, Lonny.

I'm not inclined to try to go back to the original ball and wire assembly. I simply thought there was something incorrect in the installation of what I have now. I'll try a replacement Fluidmaster assembly.


10:50AM | 10/04/04
The best installation is the preparation of the surface to be adherred to. Get it dry, sounds like you have a brass one so sand it clean and make sure there is no groves, and warm it with a hair dryer.


06:48AM | 10/05/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
Looking inside the toilet last night, I discovered that the water valve doesn't always close completely (very slight water noise which disappears when I lift the floatball).

I would like to replace the whole ball and valve assembly. The water inlet is in the upper rear portion of the watercloset. The pipe enters, connects to what appears to be a water shutoff valve, then dips down and back up (U-shaped) and connects to the valve assembly and the connection for the ball rod.

Is there a readily available replacement for this type of older ball-and-valve assembly?

I know of the float type replacement assembly (Fluidmaster?) that slides up and down on a rod which is designed to attach to a tank having a bottom-entry water inlet. This clearly wouldn't work for my toilet.


10:13AM | 10/05/04
Is this a one piece toilet? The water inlet at the top of the tank indicates that. We need to know the brand and model number because the next steps may be specific to your toilet. Look at the indented ceramic marks on the inside back of the toilet tank. You will see the ceramic date and seperately numbers and a letter. You probably won't see the full brand name written out. Send all the numbers and letters you see. You may need to darken the indentations with a pencil.


11:30AM | 10/05/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
The watertank is attached to the wall behind. Below the tank is a short "sleeve" of porcelain which no doubt contains the water pipe for the toilet bowl below.

The bowl has the name "Standard" imprinted on the outside. I will check for markings in the tank this evening.

Thank you for your help.

erik peterson

05:47AM | 10/06/04
Member Since: 06/23/03
223 lifetime posts
Hire a professional with "restoration" have a "wall-mount" flush-ell/offset toilet. These also have a "top-fill" ballcock....a shame someone removed the original parts and installed cheap fit-all mechanism. All parts are available its just a matter of finding a qualified plumber. Many will tell you it cannot be repaired (this group simply does not have the skills necessary). erik
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