08:33AM | 05/16/05
Member Since: 04/25/05
1915 lifetime posts
"any remaining unfinished area can remain lit with the 15 amp overhead lighting circuit, but if you have receptacles in unfinished areas they must be GFCI protected, and more current codes require that they be on an independant 20 amp receptacle circuit. You cannot have an overhead lighting circuit combined EVER with a 20 amp circuit unless its the exception for a dedicated and single luminaire fixture for a bathroom (which is required a 20 amp GFCI protected circuit). Residental lighting circuits are otherwise restricted to 15 amp circuits. Laundry areas and any sink areas (or other water hazards like sump pump pits and the like)have special requirements finished and unfinished as well"

The is no general requirment in the NEC that prohibts lighting to be installed on 20 amp circuits. Some 20 amp receptacle circuits (one for multiple bathrooms and the kitcen small appliance circuits) can't also be used to lighting. But that is a limitation those specific types of circuit not on all 20 amp circuits.

However a few localities have adopted such limitations, but it is not in the NEC.

"And most important is the rating of your circuit overcurrent protection devices and Box in comparison to the rating of your wire. Most older structures have 70 or 75 degree C rated and when you use 90 degree C rated wire you MUST take that derating into consideration."

No practical affect since they limited to less than there 60 ampacity anyway.

The only limitation is that some lighting fixtures require 90 degree wiring. But this is NEW so all of the wiring would be 90 anyway.

"A basement can easily contain a circuit that is more than 75 feet in total length. Ambient earth temperatures in Southern States and desert areas can easily be factors in basements. Not knowing where in the world your basement is, can't say whether or not that must be factored in derating."

Where would you find a basement that has an ambient temp over 122?

" BEDROOMS are limited to 15 amp circuits. "

WRONG! There is no general NEC limiting bedroom circuits to 20 amps.

"That BEDROOM will require a separate circuit and will need to be ARC FAULT protected most likely (assuming your AHJ has adopted a code version within the last 10 years)"

There is no requirments for bedrooms to be on separate circuits. There is no prohibition agaisnt powering other parts of the house from a "bedroom" circuit with or without an AFCI.

And "last 10 years" has nothing to do with it. AFCI's did not show up until the 99 NEC and even then did not require them until 2001.

One thing that has not been mentioned is smokes. With remodeling many places require updgrading smoke dectors and more so with a bedroom.

Sometime they will be required hardwired an sometime also tied with hardwired ones in other areas of the house "if practical". That whole area if very subject to local interpretations.

Likewise if you have a hardwired smoke in the bedroom then it is an "outlet" and the 2002 NEC requires that (and lights) to also be AFCI protected. But again many locals have opted out of this.

So if your area requires inspection I would check these out first.


08:58AM | 05/16/05
Member Since: 05/03/05
79 lifetime posts
Check with your AHJ and Building Dept to find out if you are allowed to do your own wiring and what additional requirements they have. Are you allowed to use non-metallic sheathed cable (sheathed electrical cable), or must the wiring be in conduit or metal clad cable. Also when in doubt hire a qualified licensed electrician.

30 can lights is a large amount of fixtures. You can wire either with #14 or #12 AWG. The #14 must be on a 15Amp breaker. You will probably have several switches to control different lights. Assuming you are using 150W lamps you will need at least 3 15 Amp circuits

The bathroom will be on a 20 Amp circuit including a GFI receptacle. The NEC allows the lights in the bathroom to also be on the same circuit as the GFI.

I would also install a vent fan. It can be wired to the light or to an independent switch.

The receptacle spacing should be so that no point along the wall is more than 6’ from an outlet.

The unfinished basement will require a GFI receptacle—somewhere.

The bedroom will need to be on an AFCI circuit, including the smoke alarm. Check with the AHJ to find out what code cycle your municipality is on and if the AFCI circuits are required. If not, it’s still a good idea to install.

You can wire up to 13 receptacles on a 20Amp circuit, but I would limit it to 9. Based on 28x62, you will need at least 15 receptacles.

Hope this helps.


05:22PM | 05/17/05
Member Since: 03/31/05
265 lifetime posts
Tshea, but for the NEC at least, there is no restriction on the number of receptacles on a circuit in a dwelling.


08:21AM | 05/19/05
Member Since: 01/30/05
361 lifetime posts
there is no limitation on the number of receptacles in a residental circuit, except

1) combination lighting (now called luminaire) and receptacle circuits are and HAVE been limited to 15 amp and 1440 va for a LONG TIME by the NEC. It is the introduction of a LIGHTING fixture that envokes the limit. This is why most lighting circuits in homes are DEDICATED to that purpose and receptacles are often served from a different branch circuit with its own overcurrent protection. Luminaires in residential applications ARE limited to 15 amp branch circuits EXCEPT where OTHERWISE noted.

2) NEC has for SOME TIME required a dedicated 20 amp gfci receptacle for bathroom, and LIMITS the luminaire/fan/overhead to a power limit and provides for ONE such feature/outlet for that DEDICATED circuit.

3) The future bathroom and future bedroom CAN NOT SHARE THE SAME CIRCUIT. The unfinished area receptacles and the bedroom area CANNOT SHARE THE SAME receptacle CIRCUIT. The finished non-bathroom areas can share the same circuit with the bedroom, IF LOCAL CODES permit.

4) I referred to the arc fault protection and KNOWING that MOST AHJ have adopted SOME CODE VERSION THAT IS AT MOST 10 years old, and that both of the more well known code authorities have included that requirement (arc fault protection for bedrooms)within that time period (NEC went back and forth on the requirement in its specifications twice in the 90s).

Funny that "jarrod" and "tshea1" here both offer advice, yet in another post on a pond pump tshea1 is asking the questions and jarrod is the "authority" berrating and answering questions.

I think you need to get your screen names in order Jarrod, as its obvious you're the same person!


08:29AM | 05/19/05
Member Since: 03/31/05
265 lifetime posts
Ell: Please provide the code sections for your claims of NEC limits on combination lighting/receptacle circuits.

I would suggest you keep your opinions of other posters to yourself.


08:33AM | 05/19/05
Member Since: 05/03/05
79 lifetime posts
Whoever you are you seem to be misinformed.

I am not Jarrod.

I have been doing electrical work for 30 yrs.

Your item 1

The NEC does not restrict lighting circuits to 15Amp. SHow your proof!

Item #2

You are actually agreeing with me! Let me clarify-"The bathroom will be on a 20 Amp circuit including a GFI receptacle. The NEC allows the lights in the bathroom to also be on the same circuit as the GFI." ONLY for that bathroom.

#3 No one said that except you.

#4 "And "last 10 years" has nothing to do with it. AFCI's did not show up until the 99 NEC and even then did not require them until 2001." 2005-2001=4 yrs. EZ math.

MistressEll go to the thread Who are you and post if you dare!!


02:27PM | 05/19/05
Member Since: 04/25/05
1915 lifetime posts
"The unfinished area receptacles and the bedroom area CANNOT SHARE THE SAME receptacle CIRCUIT."

The circuit that serves the bedroom can also serive the unfinished area of the basement, garage, outdoor, hall, living room, and any other location in the house except those few areas that require dedicated circuits (bathroom, kitchen/dinning room, laundry).

PS, I am not Jarrold, tseah1, househelper or anyone other than, Just Plain Old Bill.

But of course you knew that from FHB.


06:48PM | 05/19/05
Member Since: 05/03/05
79 lifetime posts
"PS, I am not Jarrold, tseah1, househelper or anyone other than, Just Plain Old Bill."

Bill, I'm tshea1 not tseah1!

Have a nice day! See ya on another thread since we are not the same guy!!


08:29AM | 05/26/05
Member Since: 05/24/05
6 lifetime posts
It looks like you will need a minimum of five circuits. This depends on wether or not you will have a heat, vent, light in bathroom. if so that would be 6. 2 ckts for the lighting minimum since you will have 30 Can lights if they are 75r40 lamps that would be about 18A worth of load exceeding the 80% rule of the overcurrent device. 1 or 2 ckts for the bath (one for heat vent light, one for receptacle). One dedicated for the refer 20A. Then 1 or 2 for the recepts depending how many there are. The loads placed on houses anymore I would run all the circuits on 20A breakers.
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