Sorry Bob, I purchased Hurd windows 14 years ago and finally have the money to replace them. The first year they were installed many of them leaked air through the sash and windows themselves. I called the company that sold them, Crawford and Brinkman, and was directed to the regional rep of Hurd. They first tried to blame the installer until they came out and found the windows were installed correctly. One of the tech's that came out said they had a few batches that came out that were bad. To make a long story short we were given storm windows at cost and told we just lived in a "very windy area" and there was nothing else they could do. It will be nice not having to put plastic on the insides of my windows any longer when we replace them with Anderson or Pella.