Latest Discussions : Plumbing

LonnythePlumber

07:27AM | 10/04/04
You have a fluidmaster flapper repair kit. Those older toilets (they flush) had a lift wire and tank ball system that would often hang-up and require jiggling. This fluidmaster kit is not one I use but other plumbers are installing them. If they come loose then just reinstall another like you would replacing just the flapper. They are not expensive. The trick is to get the existing seat dry, clean (sanded ?) and warm with a hair dryer.

marcwd

08:46AM | 10/04/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
Thanks for the response.

Yes, now that you mention the name Fluidmaster I know I've seen these flapper/seal assemblies at the home supply stores.

However, I'm not confident that replacing the assembly with another or, just as well, I think, simply replacing the putty ring would be a long-term fix.

Should a new properly applied putty seal provide enough adhesion to hold up against the repeated yanking of the pull chain? Isn't there normally some other mechanism that prevents the chain from pulling beyond what's required to lift the flapper?

Further, do you have any suggestions for a superior flapper/seal mechanism?


LonnythePlumber

09:19AM | 10/04/04
You can return to the lift wires and tank ball. You will need a guide for the wires that secures to the brass overflow tube.

However while I consider returning these toilets to their original parts system, other respected repair plumbers feel the fluidmaster approach has equal life if properly installed.

There is not something that keeps the trip lever from coming up too high except on the older Kohler's that have an 1 1/2" U brace off the trip lever at the tank connection.

The Fluidmaster system is the only one I know of that works. Most of us consider the fluidmaster ballcocks to be the best.

marcwd

10:42AM | 10/04/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
Thanks very much, Lonny.

I'm not inclined to try to go back to the original ball and wire assembly. I simply thought there was something incorrect in the installation of what I have now. I'll try a replacement Fluidmaster assembly.

LonnythePlumber

10:50AM | 10/04/04
The best installation is the preparation of the surface to be adherred to. Get it dry, sounds like you have a brass one so sand it clean and make sure there is no groves, and warm it with a hair dryer.

marcwd

06:48AM | 10/05/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
Looking inside the toilet last night, I discovered that the water valve doesn't always close completely (very slight water noise which disappears when I lift the floatball).

I would like to replace the whole ball and valve assembly. The water inlet is in the upper rear portion of the watercloset. The pipe enters, connects to what appears to be a water shutoff valve, then dips down and back up (U-shaped) and connects to the valve assembly and the connection for the ball rod.

Is there a readily available replacement for this type of older ball-and-valve assembly?

I know of the float type replacement assembly (Fluidmaster?) that slides up and down on a rod which is designed to attach to a tank having a bottom-entry water inlet. This clearly wouldn't work for my toilet.


LonnythePlumber

10:13AM | 10/05/04
Is this a one piece toilet? The water inlet at the top of the tank indicates that. We need to know the brand and model number because the next steps may be specific to your toilet. Look at the indented ceramic marks on the inside back of the toilet tank. You will see the ceramic date and seperately numbers and a letter. You probably won't see the full brand name written out. Send all the numbers and letters you see. You may need to darken the indentations with a pencil.

marcwd

11:30AM | 10/05/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
The watertank is attached to the wall behind. Below the tank is a short "sleeve" of porcelain which no doubt contains the water pipe for the toilet bowl below.

The bowl has the name "Standard" imprinted on the outside. I will check for markings in the tank this evening.

Thank you for your help.


erik peterson

05:47AM | 10/06/04
Member Since: 06/23/03
223 lifetime posts
Hire a professional with "restoration" experience....you have a "wall-mount" flush-ell/offset toilet. These also have a "top-fill" ballcock....a shame someone removed the original parts and installed cheap fit-all mechanism. All parts are available its just a matter of finding a qualified plumber. Many will tell you it cannot be repaired (this group simply does not have the skills necessary). erik

marcwd

06:17AM | 10/06/04
Member Since: 10/03/04
9 lifetime posts
Thanks, Erik. Actually, it seems that the only replacement part is the Fluidmaster flapper and seat. There are two problems now besides the loose flapper/seat (which I should easily be able to redo.)

First, the stopcock valve leaks slightly unless the floatball is really pulled up. I know that I can adjust the pressure on the valve by changing the length of the floatball rod, but I still can't reliably get the valve to completely close. I assume that there's some kind of rubber washer in the stopcock which I could find at a plumbing supply store. Yes?

Second, the brass mechanism behind the flush handle is loose and flops around. This mechanism has a kind of rocker arm which allows the handle to be turned in either direction (from six o'clock position) to pull up the flapper via the lever and chain. There's a large nut that needs to be turned in order to tighten the mechanism on the porcelain wall, but I can't seem to get to it with removing a brass screw at the back end of the mechanism which is frozen. Is there a tried-and-true method for loosening these things? I've got WD-40 soaking in there and am thinking of buying a small propane torch to heat up the assembly. Any ideas?

Lonny, no markings found inside the tank besides the name "Standard."


LonnythePlumber

07:05AM | 10/06/04
Eric, Thank you for identifying the toilet. As soon as marc said he had a wall hung with a top fill water line, I thought.......

How did you identify that it has an offset flush ell? I have not seen a porcelain sleeve on the bottom of a tank.

Marc you should be careful with the torch. Heat may break your ceramic. And you should be able to get a washer from your hardware store. It will also probably have a leather or o ring around the stem to replace.

erik peterson

04:51PM | 10/06/04
Member Since: 06/23/03
223 lifetime posts
The porcelain is a "shroud" to cover the chrome-plated ell/offset....very common in older units. Marc do yourself a favor and hire a professional, these units are difficult to work on....use the terminology in selecting your plumber, if he doesnt know what the parts are by the terms given, look elsewhere. erik

LonnythePlumber

06:21PM | 10/06/04
They must be common in only some areas. I've not seen one if I understand the description accurately and that is that the chromed flush ell is covered by porcelain.

erik peterson

05:41AM | 10/09/04
Member Since: 06/23/03
223 lifetime posts
These are common in houses 70 years or older in all parts of the country......erik

mandingo2004

10:47PM | 01/29/05
Member Since: 02/28/04
14 lifetime posts
Fixing a toilet can conserve water and save you money. Fixing an older toilet can be a nightmare and they waste 100's of gallons of water a day. I got a Fluidmaster 400AK from Aruntx.com Online Store. They are very helpful and shipped very quickly.

Aruntx.com Online Shopping has a video presentation about installing the Fluidmaster 400AK and complete instructions for available to view. For under $20 this is one of the best investments I ever have made, I have saved about $400 by installing this complete toilet repair kit. Hope this information helps.

erik peterson

04:21AM | 01/31/05
Member Since: 06/23/03
223 lifetime posts
mandingo your intentions are good but your experience is clearly limited.....this kind of product will not work on this type of toilet......poor advice is more harmful than no advice. erik


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