# COMMUNITY FORUM

RickHerman

07:23AM | 04/17/06
Member Since: 04/16/06
There is an outbuilding on my property (just purchased) It has electric run to it. I was interested in running water to it, mainly for drinking. How far can a water line be run from the house? this building is quite a distance, 400 feet. Any suggestions?

Rick

Sylvan

01:48PM | 04/18/06
Member Since: 01/24/06
No problem in NYC I ran water lines in sky scrappers much higher then 400 ft and that was vertical.

In the ancient Roman and Greek times folks ran water lines hundreds of miles all manual labor long before copper tubing was soldered and CPVC was invented.

You should know what pressure losses one will face, what the desired GPM rate you want what available pressure you have and what pressure you will need at the far end of the distribution system.

Piece of cake just do the math, try the link below

http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbviews/1999/watersupply.asp

RickHerman

05:55AM | 04/19/06
Member Since: 04/16/06
Sylvan

Amazing I have been told that the outbuilding is too far from the house. It is about 400 feet from the back of the hosue. The well is out front. I was thinking that a line could be run from the back of the house to the building - the lawn does slope down slowly. In the building we would want a faucet for hot and cold water and possibly a clothes washer in there too. Do you see that as a problem? My next problem will be about drainage, and I will ask that next.

Sylvan

02:25PM | 04/19/06
Member Since: 01/24/06
Ok lets get technical and talk "plummmin"

Lets start with first year apprentice basics not a put down but the theory is important

1- To find out what PRESSURE we need at a fixture lets figure 10 PSI for pressure at a sink and to fill a tank and toilet bowl (Forget a decent shower)

Lets take 2.31 times 10 PSI means we can PUMP WATER 23. feet NOT considering friction loss through piping and fittings,valves etc.

(we find that from the manufacturer or charts)

To prove this 23 feet number lets take water standing still in a pipe 23 ft vertical and times this by .434 which brings us back to 9.98 PSI close enough for government workers

Now you want to go 400 FEET is this straight up?

What pressure do you want at the end of the run?

What material are you using PVC ,CPVC, Copper and what diameter?

You would hate to run a small diameter pipe and then later say oops I should have thought about a shower or garden hose or other.

Once you decide on how much pressure you need and what exactly is the usage you will need then E mail me and we can get into cool formulas like velocity and GPM relationship at any given size of piping.

IF you want to get an idea the easiest way I would imagine is get a garden hose connect it to an outside hose bib see if the pressure at the end of the 400 ft run is adequate in your opinion

(or put a gauge on the end) Now you will have an idea of your starting pressure at the pump by the well and your loss through the hose and distance.

They sell gauges that screw directly on a hose connection, I use it on testing fire sprinklers.

THEN lets talk long run drainage and location of clean outs (every 50 ft normally) and venting? and FU (fixture units) we are draining FU =7.48 gallons or 1 CU FT unless we are pumping then FU is based upon 1 GPM = 1 FU

READY to take a masters exam yet? :-) Feel free to contact me HAVE A GREAT Holiday Sylvan Tieger,LMP

Sylvan

02:55PM | 04/19/06
Member Since: 01/24/06
Concentrate on just one COLD WATER Supply line to the cottage.

Inside you can decide on an electric or gas heater and piping materials, the key is just getting water there.

400 feet straight UP run would require a pump capable of pushing out 174 PSI but then you would have to ADD in the PSI needed at the fixtures.

We normally convert the feet into PSI or PSI into feet (head) so we are dealing with same numbers and then punch out the results

That was the .434 (feet) or 2.31 (PSI) now lets consider a water main in a street like NYC or Boston where some of these pipes are in excess of 100 years old.

No way anyone would want to pressure test these cast iron and in some cases wooden water mains with 174 PSI

So what we big city folks do where the available pressure in the street is say 40 PSI we make a decision.

Do we go for a humongous HP pump and then figure in the erosion factor?

(velocity eats away ferrous piping)

What you may consider is a booster pump located part way up the mountain, A gravity tank like we install on high rise office buildings and sky scrapper condo's where we have a tank on the roof feed by a small pump that fills the roof tank and let gravity do the distribution work.

Or possibly two booster pumps located in heated or well insulated shacks each one say 150 feet apart?

The math is the key factor PRESSURE x 2.31 and available pressure at the end for your desired results.

Lets say you want 30 PSI at a shower just times it by .434 and it convents back to feet

The good thing is your not looking to elevate the water 400 feet high which should cut down on the actual HP actually required and you can do it in stages with a water tank at the end of the run actions as a reservoir.

Nothing is impossible as NYC gets 99% of its water by gravity from way upstate which keeps the cost really low and in Manhattan we take this gravity fed system and pump it up, up and away ... Are we having fun yet?

How to be a plumber over night THIS OVER NIGHT course will take 10,000 hours and 744 hrs of class room studies

Sylvan

01:13PM | 07/10/07
Member Since: 01/24/06
Whatever happened to Rick ?

SEE water tanks is the Key to getting water pressure with smaller pumps

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