Latest Discussions : Plumbing

darruu

03:39PM | 12/21/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
this little question will likely seem silly after i am done the install, but before i go ahead and do something silly: i have the plumbing and the stall for a standalone shower and just cut out the holes for the 2 faucets. I am having trouble understanding how i am to make these holes leak-proof. The plumbing has a flange, the actual faucet provides the outside threads for the faucet handle to attach to, but my mind is yelling for a rubber washer, or something that will seal it all up. I don't think silicone on the back flange (behind the shower stall wall) is correct because how would you ever reseal it after the first install if there were problems?

So from the back side, i have the plumbing with flange, then the wall of the shower, then the faucet nut with threads, then the purchase faucet assembly... but no rubber, no obvious way to seal it. What am i missing? thanks very kindly, drew..

darruu

07:16PM | 12/21/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
after thinking about it a bit more, my thoughts are that i am supposed to silicone the larger chromed flange to the wall of the shower? but this won't prevent water from slipping in as that flange is definitely not super tight.. drew..

LonnythePlumber

02:43AM | 12/22/04
We seal faucet escutcheons from the inside of the shower. If tightening your escutcheon/flange does not secure it against movement, then you can install a separately purchased large washer to install on the faucet body side of the shower unit.

darruu

08:26AM | 12/22/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
i just looked at a diagram of a bottom mount faucet and noted a lock nut and what appeared to be a washer under the nut. This is what i appear to be missing. Neither the new faucets, nor the faucet kit from Delta has them. The plumbing is original and perhaps the locknuts were part of that assembly, and i lost them in the deconstruct.

So, if i am correct, i will head out to the hardware store and buy a few locknuts and rubber washers and seal up that hole! Make sense? thanks kindly, this is an awesome resource! drew..

LonnythePlumber

08:52AM | 12/22/04
If you do need to buy nuts and solid washer for the back of the faucet then you may need to take the faucet with your or buy extra nuts. There are many diameters and thread per inch differences on nuts.

I presumed you have a 3 1/2" shower faucet that has a molded-in brass flange on the outside of the shower. On wide spread lavatory and whirlpool faucets we do have nuts and solid washers to adjust to allow for different thickness of the tub or lavatory. I've not seen them on a shower faucet but it may be possible.

I now understand that you have a two handle Delta shower faucet. We do not have back nut and washers on them. The faucets are mounted solid to the house framing and the escutcheon/flanges tighten down to a wall which does not flex. Your stand alone unit flexes. You may not have lost any parts because they were not there to begin with.

Try your nut and solid flat washer idea. Since you have a thin wall I think it could work. You may want to double nut. A rubber washer would go on the inside of the shower. We prevent leaks by sealing on the incoming water side.

darruu

01:22PM | 12/22/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
ahh i am close to calling a plumber.. I just cannot find any nuts to fit. I may try another store later today, but this seems like the only route. If i just use the flange, and silicone it, my mind tells me that drips and body splash will easily run in the opening anyway.

I may have to go and buy a brand new fixture for behind the shower wall. Trying to match the old one seems to be at the heart of things. Trouble is, i already cut two 1 inch holes to match the current fixture. I may have to fill them somehow if i cannot find any fixture set to 3 3/8th" on center between the 2 faucets.

I may really eat it on this one √ú drew..

doug seibert

01:42PM | 12/22/04
Member Since: 08/10/02
842 lifetime posts
All you need is "something" to back-up the thin walled shower insert........

Usually the Cement Board or Green board wall covering is DIRECTLY behind the insert with the holes fitted close to the faucet body......You need a solid backing......

.....the escutcheon sandwiches the insert against the wall.......SO WHAT'S BEHIND YOUR INSERT ?

.......If there's a space lurking there I'd cut a piece of waterproof cementboard or PVC Trim stock and drill the faucet holes and fasten all to the wall with screws and caulk........

LonnythePlumber

02:46PM | 12/22/04
Darruu keep trying you are close to solving this. While finding the right nuts is a challenge you should be able to find flat washers that will fit over the faucet stem body. Instead of nuts how about small c clamps to hold the flat washers tight against the shower wall?

Doug he has a self standing shower that is not against a wall. However I do think your idea can work if darruu cut one or two boards that fit over the stems so that pressure could be applied against the faucet body, he would then have something for the escutcheon/flanges to be tightened against.

Calling a plumber may not be your best alternative. We need to fix things so that the repair will last. In this case it would probably mean a new faucet which you could probably do yourself. If you do call a plumber you should explain the situation in advance so that he will be able to be prepared.

However, like Doug I believe you can do this.

darruu

05:57AM | 12/23/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
based on the confusion from everyone at my end, including hardware store folks, i just said "poo on it". I went and bought a single faucet moen setup that included the behind the wall hardware, pulled out my torch and yanked out the old stuff! I also used the plastic pipe and crimping tool to put together the hardware, so far no leaks, although it took forever because the cold feed would not stop dripping and the wetness keep the solder from taking (frustrating!)... anyways, no leaks, and i am building the blocking today. Wish me luck, drew..

LonnythePlumber

07:12AM | 12/23/04
Success. You've resolved your situation with an upgrade and excellent solution. I didn't think the round escutcheon would cover both 8" holes but whatever your characteristics you've solved it. Very good. I appreciate you letting us know about your solution.

If your single level faucet came with a plaster guard you can use it instead of blocking. The escutcheon bolts will tighten the shower wall to the plaster guard. Like a sandwich. The shower wall is the meat/cheese and the escutcheon and plater guards are the pieces of bread. This is how we often mount these faucets to fiberglass units.

Gotta stop and eat now.

darruu

09:06AM | 12/23/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
thanks Lonny, excellent thought on the plastic guard, i will try that. I was ready to fashion a small wood insert, but that is much better. and the correct size. The escutcheon does indeed work as the original fittings were only 3-3/8" between the two centers, which was a cause for many concerns. One hardware tech told me that i was plain wrong, that there was no way they were only that wide... oh well, i did have a digital pic of it, but it was not worth the effort to prove it to the not-so-kind gentleman √ú..

And no worries re the update, i do quite a bit of forum support for software, and i know what it is like to have folks post and run, or post something like "oh, thanks anyway, i solved it" and never tell us what the solution was!

and lastly, i will likely block behind the control just to relieve lateral stress from the shower wall itself. I did myself a huge favour last night and cut out a back opening into the control area from the other side of the wall the plumbing is in, for current and future access needs. I will just put together a shallow set of shelves that will slip in and out as needed. Many many thanks, and Merry Christmas, drew..

darruu

12:42PM | 12/23/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
ok, all is certainly feeling better, getting ready to secure everything in place. Looking at the drain, standard 2", but it extends about an inch up from the concrete. The fiberglass pan sits about .25-.5 inches from the floor, so it appears the pipe needs cutting, is this correct?

Bigger question: the drain unit i bought at a big box store (where everything seems to have no instructions). This is a "quick caulking" drain which securely fits onto the pipe, but it is close to 2 inches tall. This was bought when i bought my shower, nothing was mentioned about the height differential. Unless i raise the shower, which at this point i just cannot do, i need to either cut the quick-caulking drain down, or go out once again to the store looking for a shorter drain, and this is what i am confused about, is this correct? Is this designed for non-set mortar bases? Do i need to chip out a schwack of concrete to allow the drain to fit down? Darn i hope not, that is a pain of a job!!

This drain has that self-caulking internal twisting bar with the screwdriver slot in the middle of it. It only have about 1 inch of rubbered internal piping, and i would not want to ruin it by cutting it if this is not needed..

thanks again! drew..

LonnythePlumber

01:12PM | 12/23/04
I think it's more likely that your drain pipe is too low than too high. The no caulk drains are good. The brass drains are much better than the plastic ones whose nuts tend to come loose.

You could dry install the drain without silicone and without the donut caulking gasket and set the base over the drain to evaluate whether it will work or not. The instructions for the drain are usually included in the showers installation instructions. If not you can go to the manufacturers site and get specifications. But it's easier to just try it.

I am not aware of a shorter drain and you cannot cut these drains down and have them seal. Even though it may not be required, it's often better to set your base in a bed of quikrete. Makes it much more solid.

darruu

01:20PM | 12/23/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
after bantering with my wife/project manager, we narrowed it to either raising the shower with 2x4's or renting a mini-jackhammer and lower a 'moat' around the drain pipe. She is too worried abou the pipe, so we are going to raise the shower. I will need to shorten the pvc feed pipes by the 2x4 width, recrimp them, set the 2x flooring, fill the gaps with sand or gravel, and adjust for level, then sell the frigg'n house.. √ú

LonnythePlumber

01:57PM | 12/23/04
If I was there I would be trying to get the project manager to let me set the base on the floor and not raise it. These self standing units are wobbily enough. If your drain pipe can be hurt breaking out the concrete then it needs to be replaced anyway. Is it Cast Iron? Plastic shouldn't be a concern.

I presume you mean PEX on your water piping. We do not use PVC inside on hot lines.

Be happy this is a project you can do together with your wife.

darruu

02:06PM | 12/23/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
yes i meant to say PEX (so used to saying PVC).. The drain is heavy black plastic, and is very solid. We are just concerned that the action of the mini hammer will break it. By "shouldn't be a concern" do you mean that it is generally durable enough to handle careful excavation beside it? If i go this route, it would be a moat about only 2 inches out from the pipe all the way around and about 1.5-2 inches deep. I say this 2 inches away so as to protect the pipe, meaning it would start the hitting around a inch+ away.. drew..

LonnythePlumber

03:30AM | 12/24/04
ABS pipe is fairly tough. It is not likely that you would harm it by removing the concrete. It may be easier to remove all of the concrete 3 1/2" to 4" deep than to try to dig out just the top half.

You can drill holes through the concrete around the outer diameter of the hole you wish to have. This would result in less impact to the pipe. But it's usually not necessary. Don't drill too far down past the end of the concrete or you may end up in the pipe. You can tell which direction the pipe runs by sticking a measuring tape into the tailpiece and feeling which direction it turns.

darruu

06:49PM | 12/27/04
Member Since: 10/19/04
25 lifetime posts
Hi Lonny, thanks for the feedback. Over the Christmas trip, I talked this over with the queenbee and she saw the wisdom in the words. I bought a larger masonary bit, and will tackle the job tomorrow and let you know how it goes! drew..


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