Latest Discussions : Plumbing

mikejh1

11:12AM | 03/27/07
Member Since: 03/25/07
1 lifetime posts
What is best type of water softener?

Does anyone have experience with any type of salt-free water softener that actually works?

Gary Slusser

04:31AM | 03/31/07
Member Since: 02/17/04
112 lifetime posts
There aren't any. The magnets and electronic anti-scale and descalers are not softeners. They do not make water soft because they do not remove any hardness.

They are supposed to prevent and remove water hardness scale but...

The best softener will have a Clack WS-1 control valve on it and correctly sized for your water quality, family size and your SFR (service flow rating) needs.

Gary

Quality Water Associates

qwerty999

03:57PM | 04/15/07
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
Those, so called, no salt softeners are not softener at all. If they advertise as being a softener, then they are not accurate and may even be fraudulent.

These 'low cost' magnets and scale busters are geared for those looking for el cheapo solutions to water problems but are disappointed in the end.

Get an accurate water analysis from an independent source, prferably on-site, and determne what is in your water and then you can better determine what course of action to take.

Learning and understanding water and water treatment is essential to taking the right action.

I prefer the Kinetico, twin-tank, non-electric to handle most water issues with efficiency and lon-term reliability.

Use Bob Villa's web site (below) to understand different types of water softeners.

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Don_t_Be_Afraid_of_the_Water-Miscellaneous_Plumbing-A1610.html

baileyboy

05:58PM | 04/15/07
Member Since: 04/14/07
1 lifetime posts
I worked for Culligan for years, first a an installer, then in sales. Water softeners all do the same thing, remove hardness in your water. Most softener use ion exchange to remove the hardness from your water. Culligan and others that require salt use the brine solution to clean the media bed. This does, in turn, add sodium to your drinking water.

I looked at the Pelican salt-free softener. It's not an ion-exchange softener so its not the same as a culligan system. It is waranteed for 10 years without a gallon limit. Water filter USA offers our customers a 90-Day Satisfaction Guarantee,. Most companies do not.

I just e-mailed my questions to Water filter USA and am waiting for a response.

Since I am on city water and pay through the nose for water, having it is less expensive than the salt and water.

qwerty999

10:13AM | 04/16/07
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
My argument is that it must not be advertised as a softener or give any implication that it does what a softener does. Misleading advertising is inappropriate at best and false advertising is fraudulent at worst. This item is often labeled as a filter/softener.

The media is NFS certified against Standard 61, which means that the media adds nothing to the drinking water that would cause adverse health effects. It states nothing concerning the water production or quality.

It is also listed as an ion exchange media. This means it is one of three things: an anion media, a cation media, or a mixed bed media (which I doubt). All resin media, whether cation or anion need to be regenerated or replaced in order to do the job, which is to exchange positively or negatively charged ions for the oppositely charges ions at varying rates and durations.

If the exchange media doesn’t have a means to ‘cleanse’ itself, then it becomes exhausted and must be replaced. Furthermore, I not am unaware of an exchange media that matches the claims of scale build up in piping that Pelican advertises. I would love to learn how these claims are justified.

A” 90-day-money-back” may be just enough time before the owner realizes the effectiveness the investment. The 600,000-gallon tag that this is what the media is ‘designed’ to do, is a long way from any assurance that it actually will last that long. I can’t imagine how difficult to get your money back if not satisfied. I ma sure there are hurdles to jump before that would happen. Who knows?

Still further, any water treatment company that supplies so little actual information concerning the technology needs to be investigated before any investment is set forth.

The seller/manufacturer has no awareness of the actual water quality or the customers’ usage and so any claim must be taken as a panacea and that is very risky. All water treatment sellers must have at least an understanding of the objectives for which a system is to be used.

I hope you have success with your purchase but I wouldn’t change my views on this particular product primarily because of the lack of technical information, methods of advertising and lack of qualifications.

Good luck with your decision.

Andy Christensen, CWS

winniefgn

07:45AM | 04/24/07
Member Since: 04/22/07
1 lifetime posts
My daughter has ezcema and I want to get a water softner that will ease her ezcema. Does this no salt system has the same effect as the one with salt? I've tried the one with salt and it really smoothens your skin and hair. But I really do want a system that uses no salt. Can someone answer my question please?

qwerty999

05:47PM | 04/24/07
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
If the soft water satisfied you and your concern for you daughter's skin and hair, then what is you objection on slat based systems?

A good softener puts virtually no salt in your water.

Decision are about balancing pluses and minuses. Help me understand what really important to you.

There is a "no-salt SOFTENER" but it is not cheap and is used only for very particular customers.

Gary Slusser

07:39AM | 04/26/07
Member Since: 02/17/04
112 lifetime posts
Everyone, Andy is a Kinetico salesman so take that into consideration when reading what he says. Also, he does his best to prevent internet sales of water treatment equipment to DIYers; especially from me. I upset him a few years ago by calling their "non-electric" water powered control valve centuries old technology.

Andy suggests that you should call a local dealer out to your house. There is no need for a dealer or salesman to come out to your house to give you a choice of equipment or to explain the various choices of the softeners they sell.

If you have a water analysis on your well or your water company's water quality report data, they can size and price whatever it is they want you to own for whatever they want you to pay for it, over the phone.

They really want to come out to the house so they can twist arms to get a contract signed after dazzling you with their high priced and usually proprietary softener with the 'longest warranty in the business!" type sales hype.

If you want to be a DIYer, you can do all that is required with a toll free phone call to an internet dealer.

Gary

Quality Water Associates

qwerty999

05:04PM | 04/26/07
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
Boy, it sounds like someone got out of the wrong side of the bed.

Thank you announcing that I deal with high quality equipment produced by a leading manufacturer in the water treatment industry. I never thought it was necessary to ring my own bell, so I appreciate your revelation.

However, your tone seems a bit like you have a persecution complex. I hope you do well in your business but I can’t help you when you present yourself in such an accusatory, self-pitying light. I can understand your frustrations with what has happened to you recently but I find it hard how others are to blame for your troubles.

Sorry, Mr. Slusser, where do you get the idea that you upset me? Very strange statement! In fact, my retort had been that you were actually understating it by thousands of years, when ancient Egyptians used water driven devices. So please if you want to be more accurate get the perspective correct. But upset me!? What would motivate you to say such a thing? Utter nonsense. Gary, you are a very puzzling fellow.

I am not sure what you mean by "they". I have never twisted anyone’s arm so it couldn't be me you’re talking about. Maybe you are generalizing again for some ulterior motive. One might think that you are slamming the competition and we both know that is not representative of anyone calling himself a professional.

Quotation marks in English are used for a number reasons including. 1. To quote someone word-for-word, 2. Contextual deviation meant for sarcasm, or whit, and, 3. Opposing meaning (READ: not true). So your quoting "longest… whatever" must be one of the second two, as you wouldn’t purposely misquote someone, would you, Mr. Slusser?

What would be your reason to say something that is not true except to attack someone or slam some competitive product for one’s own benefit?

And, even furthermore, all can appreciate your contribution to the thread's original question, as usual.

chris1966

12:15AM | 11/07/07
Member Since: 11/06/07
1 lifetime posts
I've had a kinetico 4040 in my home for 3 years now and wouldn't ever consider owning another water softener. It uses far less salt and water than my old system. I also own the Reverse Osmosis system and highly recommend it to anyone. I had heard on the internet that Bob Villa uses a Kinetico in his home and thats what initially sparked my interest and got me researching Kinetico.

qwerty999

10:40AM | 11/15/07
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
I take it you are on city water, right.

I am glad that you are happy with your choice. What part of the country are in?

You will find that you will use very little salt and your water will be very soft all the time.

Gives us an update occasionaly on what you have discovered.

Andy Chistensen, CWS-II

mrbanjo

01:27PM | 05/08/08
Member Since: 05/07/08
4 lifetime posts
I have been looking for a water softener however my wife's Doctor has advised her to get a no salt softener. I didn't know there was such a thing until he mentioned it.

Anyway, three different companies seem to be well regarded. Pelican, Easywater and Safewater. Have you any information or comments on these three. They all have no salt softeners.

mrbanjo

01:30PM | 05/08/08
Member Since: 05/07/08
4 lifetime posts
I have been looking for a no salt water softener because my wife's Doctor has advised her to get the no salt type. I didn't know there was such a thing. I did find out that this web site had a comparison by watersoftenerscompared.com. They seem to rate the Pelican very highly at five stars. Two other brands I have looked at are Easywater (Frieje) and Safewater.

Do you have any information on these three companies or units.

Bill

artist117

10:22PM | 05/11/08
Member Since: 02/10/08
2 lifetime posts
Hi Bill, I bought a Pelican salt-free softener a few months ago and am very pleased with it. I had some initial minor problems when the media clogged up my faucet screen filters and toilet pumps but those problems seem to be related to installation and have not recurred. I picked Pelican over some other salt free conditioners because they claim that the media will last indefinitely while others say theirs may need to be replaced after about 5 years. I had a conventional salt water softener before and I like the water quality MUCH better with the Pelican. Good luck! Jane

mrbanjo

03:44AM | 05/12/08
Member Since: 05/07/08
4 lifetime posts
Thanks for your information about Pelican. I am trying to decide between the Pelican and Easywater which is the Freije system. Both are non salt. Does anyone have any comments about the Easywater System or Pelican.

mrbanjo

03:48AM | 05/12/08
Member Since: 05/07/08
4 lifetime posts
There are many no salt conditioners or softeners available. I am in the process of looking for one right now. My wife has been advised not to use the type that requires salt so I am looking for the best no salt one. Some of the companies I have found are Pelican, Easywater and Safewater. Of these three I am leaning toward the Pelican or Easywater. Does anyone have any experience with either of these?

lgcd2008

11:25AM | 06/02/08
Member Since: 06/01/08
1 lifetime posts
I too had to cutback on my salt intake. I purchased the Easywater and I have had great results.

The water does not feel exactly the same as it did with my salt softener, but I like the new feel better. I don't have that slimy feel that I was getting with my salt softener.

I didn't have a lot of scale buildup to get rid of because I had a salt softener before, but the build up that did exist has gone away.

I really like the Easywater, especially since I do not have to carry those heavy salt bags anymore.

bpayne611

11:32AM | 07/09/08
Member Since: 06/29/08
3 lifetime posts
ANY NEW personal resident experiances with this type of softener?? has any one had one for more than a few months? like a year or two? we are looking at the Pelican system, and would really appreciate any personal feedback.......Thanks

healthmindedbob

02:15PM | 10/22/08
Member Since: 10/21/08
1 lifetime posts
I've personally researched many different water softener, treatment and conditioner technologies on the market that deal with hard water problems. Thankfully, I've come across an impressive, affordable and easy No-Salt or Salt-Free water softener option called the HardnessMaster Premium Whole House Electronic Hard Water Conditioner & Descaler System for city or well source water. For those that are interested, I know that the company Vitasalus at http://www.vitasalus.com or http://www.equinox-products.com sells the HardnessMaster whole home system for a fraction of the cost of other companies. Plus, they back their Hardness Master product with a strong 100% Satisfaction Guarantee and Warranty.

qwerty999

02:32PM | 10/22/08
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
Here we go again...

Come on fellow. These are NOT water softeners but even the widest stretch of the imagination and to advertise it as a softener is fraud.

Clearly you have been dooped. These do not replace a normal water softener in removing hardness minerals and ferrous iron.

They are marketed toward people who are lead to believe they will accomplish great water treatment feats and are left very disappointed.

We have been doing wateer treatment for more the 3 decades and if they worked, we would be selling them. Instead, we are replacing them due to very poor to no results.

Good luck in your cheap investment.

kwatters

08:38AM | 12/17/08
Member Since: 12/16/08
1 lifetime posts
I checked their site, they sell shark liver oil as well. I am guessing that is the equivalent of 21st century snake oil.

"A sucker is born every day"

W.C. Fields

Arvidd

01:18AM | 01/06/09
Member Since: 03/27/07
4 lifetime posts
With anything one knows little about, the internet is both very helpful and very confusing. What to accept as truthful? Whom to believe as knowledgeable?

I'd like softened water, but I don't want a bunch of sodium in it. Also, like many, I loathe the slimy feel of salt-softened water in the shower. So what to do?

Several suggestions have been made here (I've read the whole string), including Pelican and Easywater. I've also read the interesting exchange concerning Kinetico. I wish I knew a bunch of reliable people who lived around this neighborhood, each one of whom had purchased a different system three or four years ago and were willing to be absolutely truthful in describing individual experiences.

Even that might be hard. No one likes to admit to having made a bozo decision, so someone with a really lousy system might glide over the bum choice so as not to appear stupid. But neighbors with experience would be about as good as personal testimony gets.

Sadly, no one around here has anything other than Culligan or similar salt-based systems, so they're no help (I already said I don't want a system that uses salt, or at least very much salt). Most of these folks are tepid in their "endorsements" of whatever system they have, so I'd not be impressed even if I wanted to dump endless quantities of salt into my water forever.

Has anyone found a forum where huge numbers of people have posted their experiences with various sorts of water softeners? Or is there a site where some sort of official, scientific analyses and comparisons might be found (yes, I've seen watersoftenerscompared.com, but it's hardly unbiased)?

It's a hard world (full of hard water) out there, and good information, as always, is at a premium, especially when nearly everyone who sells nearly anything is prepared to say nearly anything to sell it. With apologies to Joe Friday, I'd just like the facts, ma'am.

CB7777

08:27PM | 01/09/09
Member Since: 01/09/09
1 lifetime posts
We had a home in Montana with a Kinetico system. It used an enormous amount of salt per month. Maybe it was not set up correctly.

brucet50

04:12AM | 01/12/09
Member Since: 09/02/08
2 lifetime posts
I to had the problem of trying to sort through all the confusing contridictions relating to water softerners.I have chosen the pelican no salt,and i have well water.I did not want to taint the tast of my water with a salty tast.My water tast was excelent and tested for very good quality, except for the hardness. The pelican did take away that hard to clean build up on all our faucets and my wife and i notice a big difference in the feel after taking showers.Skin feels not as dry as before and all water appliances now stay very clean.I have only had the system installed for about 6 months.so as far as longeventy we will see???I am not in anyway assoiciated with any company.I do however wonder why there isn't more research and proof reguarding this all important topic.i find reading all the information reported by the many water filter companies to be in many cases only self serving. GOOD LUCK.

qwerty999

12:35PM | 01/12/09
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
Kinetico is considered a high efficiency softener, so it may have been improperly set.

bpayne611

01:04PM | 01/12/09
Member Since: 06/29/08
3 lifetime posts
We also ended up purchasing the Pelican no salt softener, and have had it for two months! we are on hard city water, in so. calif.

So far we are using less detergent for clothes & dishes, the soap lathers better in the shower, and there is no slimey feeling.. the best part is no salt to purchase or deal with! we are private parties with no affiliation with anyone. hope this helps!

artist117

10:52PM | 01/13/09
Member Since: 02/10/08
2 lifetime posts
I also live in San Diego and I bought a Pelican water conditioner in March of 2008. I love it! I really notice the difference when I wash my hair, and especially around the house - like in the guest toilet which doesn't get used so often. There is no hard water residue in the toilet and around the faucets and that was a problem with my old salt conditioner. Everything feels cleaner. I only wish that I had also bought the charcoal filter as well.

Bigmama7

04:59AM | 01/14/09
Member Since: 01/13/09
2 lifetime posts
Hope everyone reads this, I have a Kinetico system $2700, and its junk, nothing but plastic parts, we had a service call last month because the water just kept running thru it and out here, in New Mexico you just cannot waste water, went out in the garage yesterday and its doing it again, the bill for last month was $96.00 and who knows what it will be this time, its all plastic parts and boy its expensive to maintain, I would not recommend it to anyone, buy something else for hard water

qwerty999

10:56AM | 01/14/09
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
Sorry to hear you are having trouble. Which model do you have? How old is it? What do you mean water "kept running through it"?

These are very high quality and all parts are corrosion resistant. It could be a very simple fix.

What is your water quality? City? Well?

justalurker

09:40PM | 01/15/09
Member Since: 04/25/07
25 lifetime posts
Bigmama7,

Where are you in NM and how can I contact you?

Bigmama7

12:21PM | 01/18/09
Member Since: 01/13/09
2 lifetime posts
The model is called a K20/40 and was purchased in late Feb 2007, didn't think it was going to be so much trouble, but it is plastic gears inside and one of them was already replaced last month, and we are on city water

justalurker

03:08PM | 01/18/09
Member Since: 04/25/07
25 lifetime posts
Bigmama7,

Where are you in NM and how can I contact you?

qwerty999

12:15PM | 01/20/09
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
Since you had the gear replaced, has it worked?

It is a machine and machine can have problems. It is important that it can be serviced.

The unit should be MACH 2040.

kgriner

12:25PM | 05/05/09
Member Since: 05/04/09
1 lifetime posts
I would think twice about buying the Vitasalus Hardness Master No-Salt Water Softener, this same quote is on blogs all over the Internet! Seems like someone from the company is posing as a customer and going into blogs saying good things a bout their own products. That's dishonest.

Waterrep

02:23PM | 05/11/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
The culprit is residual chlorine which is injected into the municiple water to keep it biologically safe. Salt-based water softeners do not effect chlorine levels, they simply replace nutrient minerals with sodium or potassium chloride (salt). To find the most effective system to reduce chlorine levels, go to: www.wqa.org; Certifed products; go to NSF/ANSI-42; scroll to the system with the highest level of removal.

Good luck,

Ken

Ken Hoffmann

Waterrep

02:43PM | 05/11/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
1 - If you research, you'll find that ALL water softeners work the same way, the Principle of Ionic Exchange.

2 - The only way to get "soft" water is by using a salt-based water softener.

3 - If you research (How to "Eat Right and Live Longer" by Dr. Cass Ingram or "Healthy Water" by Martin Fox, PH.D.) you'll find that "hard" water is healthy water and "soft" water is unhealthy water and that reverse osmosis (R.O.) is unhealthy, aggressive, low-PH water which also has no nutritional value.

Ideally, you want nutrient minerals in the water, without scale build-up; but you don't want chlorine/chloramines.

Another point, DON'T give credence to any salesman, brochure or website. Demand independent testing and certification for each and every performance claim made.

Ken Hoffmann

Waterrep

02:48PM | 05/11/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
To expand on a CWS's comments, it's uauslly a good idea to require independent proof of every claim made by a company.

They state that they "address" a long list of contaminants but their so-called certifications have nothing to do with proof of performance. They also use the United states Green Building Council as if it certifies their claims. The USGBC is a membership organization, not a laboratory and certifiction body.

Ken Hoffmann

Waterrep

03:01PM | 05/11/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
Maybe this will help:

The only way to get "soft" water is with a salt-based water softener.

Don't believe salesman, brochures or websites; demand independant laboratory testing results and certification to support EVERY performance claim.

For an independent forum on various water treatment systems, go to "www.lacsd.org"; under Questions & Answers, click on "More"; click on "Chloride in Santa Clarita"; click on the middle box "Salt-free alternatives"; click on "View All", click on "read reviews".

Ken Hoffmann

Waterrep

03:08PM | 05/11/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
None of the three systems you mentioned are independently tested and certified. Usually, it's a good idea to research before you buy.

First, don't automatically believe anything you hear, see or hear about. All companies say hat they are great and the other guys are bad...and this is rarely true. Check-out "www.lacsd.org" for independent reviews and "www.wqa.org" for independent laboratory results.

Ken Hoffmann

suegauta

10:37AM | 05/12/09
Member Since: 05/11/09
3 lifetime posts
I have a well for my 4 bed/3 bath house with 5 people. I had someone come out to clean my tank for my salt system last week and ever since my house is almost unbearble because it smells of sulpher. I tested my water and it is very hard and has high alkalinity. Everything else was safe. The idea of not having to use salt anymore is very appealing, but I don't want to go ahead and switch to a no salt system if it wont work. I spoke to Pelican and Sunwater systems and they both told me their no salt systems would work for me. Then I called our local culligan man and another water service company and they said the no salt systems don't work. Does anyone have any advice for me?

daviddames

05:55AM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/12/09
4 lifetime posts
If you have Hard Water; I have 22 Grains of Hardness; you most likely need a Salt or Potassium type system. I was duped by a salesman and Life Source Water's site into thinking their system was a softener. Their web site actually still states it's a Water Softener. It might work on a home with mild hardness; maybe in the low single digits. Over all I'm disappointed with spending $2000 on a unit and that's why I'm looking on this forum which is filling up with more salesman BS. I've had the unit for almost 4 years now and the 22 Grains stayed exactly the same. I now have a good amount of build up on shower doors, faucets, and I'm starting to worry about my appliances.

If you just have bad tasting water the Life Source might be for you. As it has taken out the smell our water had from the well.

I'm just going to start asking around locally. I was about to go with the Kinetico, but I won't just because Bob owns one; he's got a little more money.

I guess I'll start grilling the neighbors for information.

David

suegauta

06:28AM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/11/09
3 lifetime posts
Thanks daviddames for your feedback. Does anyone know how I would test to find out how many grains I have in my water?

daviddames

06:43AM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/12/09
4 lifetime posts
I used Sears and then also called up the local water utility; mine is Missouri - American Water which tested it as well. You might have an American Water close by as well; I believe they own utilities in multiple states. That way you hopefully eliminate a mistake in the testing phase.

Note: I'm out of Missouri American Waters' lines; I live in a subdivision with Well Water. If I had Missouri American Water I wouldn't have a problem their water is good. Many friends live within their lines of water and it's Soft and Tastes good right out of the tap. Just wanted to give credit where credit is due.

Waterrep

09:57AM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
Some "helpfull" points to consider:

1. To a salt-based water softener representative, minerals are contaminants, so their interest is in removing minerals.

2. The problem with "hard" water, high in mineral content, is that these minerals tend to attach to hard surfaces, form scale and corrode the surface.

3. The benefit of minerals in the water is that they are "nutrients" necesary to your continued health.

4. There is NO perfect water treatment system as their are negatives and positives to each system type.

5. If you want -

a. A slick, slippery feeling on your skin you either get a salt softener or use Dove soap.

b. No/minimal mineral spots on your glasses, get a salt softener or use a sheeting agent such as Lemmi shine in the dishwasher.

c. Stripped, de-mineralized, aggresive, low-ph water to drink get a R.O. system.

d. Delicious, clean & safe water from every faucet and shower in your home you must research alternative systems at, for example: www.WQA.org and/or www.lacsd.org.

Note: If your application is for your own private well, don't buy anything until:

1. You get a full laboratory well water report (every two years, at least)

2. Seek out independent verifaction of EVERY performance claim; question EVERYTHING.

Good luck,

Ken

Ken Hoffmann

Waterrep

10:10AM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
There are two basic ways to test for hardness levels:

1. A TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter. This small device which looks similar to a carpenter's pencil, is placed into a small amount of water and a button is depredd on the top. A small window will show a digital number. Divide that number by 17.1 and you will (supposedly) have your grains of hardness. The problem with this answer is that the TDS meter measure ALL total dissolved minerals, not just the "hardness" minerals calcium and mafnesium. It is possible that you'll have a high TDS but a low calcium/magnesium level.

2. A Hach Hardness Kit - Pour a measured amount of water into a small bottle; place a measured amount of their provided test powder into the water, which will then turn pink; place drops of their reagent into the water and count the drops needed to turn the water blue. 8 drops = 8 grains of hardness.

Note: "Hard" water is healthy water.

Ken Hoffmann

Waterrep

10:42AM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
First, my bio is that I am a Lifesource rep., so keep that in mind.

a. LifeSource states that they are a "Water Softener Alternative", not a softener. The only way to "soften" water is with a salt-based water softener.

b. LifeSource systems do not remove nutrient minerals but most clients note that mineral spots are easily removed (see www.LACSD.org).

c. To minimize mineral spots -

1. In dishwashers, try Cascade Dawn and/or Lemmi-Shine and, once a month, pour a half cup of distilled white vinegar into the bottom and run a short wash..

2. On chrome fixtures, try a light coating of furniture or car wax.

3. Inside shower-heads, try spraying "Clean shower" once a month.

4. On shower doors, try Rainex or Google a product called "Teckon".

Generally, up to about 25 grains of hardness, these products seem to work fine.

Hope this helps.

Ken

Ken Hoffmann

daviddames

12:37PM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/12/09
4 lifetime posts
The Life Source system does a good job for what it's made for; Filtration, but it's not working for me with 22 Grains. The web site has changed since I bought my unit but the Title in the Browser still says "Water Softener - Water Filter - Water Softners". I was lead more by the sales rep at the time to believe I wouldn't need anything else, but after getting the system hooked up and working for about 4 months I told him my situation. Then he suggested having a Salt Water softener before the Life Source system and sent me some of the supplies mentioned in the previous post. I didn't have the money at the time to buy another system. I tried calling my salesman back to get sediment filters, but he was no longer there, I believe his name was Talbot.

I also tried the items you listed in the previous post, but with time they just couldn't keep things clean.

You honestly suggest just the Life Source system and nothing else when a person has 20+ Grains of Hardness?

Waterrep

12:49PM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
Talbot is no longer with the company. You may purchase the pre-filter cartridges at the company store at www.lifesourcewater.com.

I have about 1150 clients in areas ranging from 5 - 25 grains of hardness. The products I mentioned have done the job so far. As compared to a salt-based water softener, I always mention that you definately will get mineral spots with using those products as the purpose of our system is to retain nutrient minerals and reduce chlorine/chloramines.

While i don't sell or recommend them I've heard that certain "catalytic" devices work but they must be cleaned regularly.

Ken

Ken Hoffmann

daviddames

01:06PM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/12/09
4 lifetime posts
Would you mind posting data on how many have 20+ grains and only use your system?

So what Salt Water system would one of your engineers recommend since it's not really a competing product? This is what everyone needs to know that needs to purchase a Salt or Potassium based system.

suegauta

01:58PM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 05/11/09
3 lifetime posts
Does anyone with hard well water have any experience with no salt pelican water technologies systems?

alexofthemed

04:12PM | 05/13/09
Member Since: 04/06/09
1 lifetime posts
I simply called the technical department of my local water company. They gave me the information I was looking for: 22 gains/gal. which is relatively hard. No advice on a water system as I am looking for one now (not salt based - we have that now).

Waterrep

10:12AM | 05/15/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
We don't keep records based upon grains of hardness.

You might check-out www.lacsd.org; More...;Chloride in Santa Clarita; Alternative systems; Read reviews". This is an area where salt-based regenerative water softeners have been banned due to the chloride effluent. Generally, the "hardness" levels in this area varys from 14 grains to 25 grains.
Essentially, all salt-based water softeners work the same way. Only independent laboratory testing and certification will show that one is better than another. Check-out www.wqa.org and www.nsf.org. So, unless you're swayed by brand name, blinking lights and unsupported product claims, Sears is as good as any.

Ken

Ken Hoffmann

Arvidd

08:23PM | 05/15/09
Member Since: 03/27/07
4 lifetime posts
I guess I don't care if "water softening" isn't the correct term for a non-salt outfit, I just want water that doesn't crud everything up with deposits on the tile, in the faucets, lining the toilet, and crudding the pipes.

I've read this whole string and find that the "truth" is as elusive as it ever was. Everyone has his own axe to grind (or water to soften, perhaps), and who knows who the real seekers after truth are and who the fakes and shysters might be.

Another thing. I don't give a hang if wonderfully nutritive mineral chunks are removed from my water in order to make it inoffensive and nondestructive to the physical environment it interacts with in my home. Water comes with every sort of mineral content, from negligible to huge. I'd much, much rather get a mineral supplement and have non-damaging water than gorge on tasty minerals and wreck my house. That's what I'd have to do anyway if I lived in an area with low mineral content in the water.

It would be nice if we could skip the Amway-like baloney here and get some real people with real experience. Not so long ago, a person could pretty much trust strangers to be honest about everyday things. I guess that in a society as violent and deceptive as ours seems to have become, candor about mere water "softening" (sorry, treatment/filtering/whatever the blazes it's supposed to be called) is low on the list.

Waterrep

08:15AM | 05/16/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
A salt-based water softener is the ONLY system that will remove minerals. So, if you don't want minerals in the water you should purchase a water softener. If you want something else, research; don't depend upon a sales rep., company website or brochure. This way you, at least, gain some independent "truths".

Regarding mineral suppliments, according to the World Health Organization your body needs minerals in water, not just in food and suppliments.

Ken Hoffmann

qwerty999

06:13PM | 05/17/09
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
I believe you are mistaken on a couple of issues:

A softener is NOT the only means to remove minerals. In fact, it exchanges minerals, not removes them. They actually increase dissolved solids, not eliminte them.

A reverse osmosis and nano-membrane do remove, albeit not completely, minerals, salts and metals.

De-ionization, either through separate cation/anion resin or mixed beds will remove ions to a point of zero TDS.

To say that water needs to be a supplier of minerals 'essential' for health is misleading and I beleive insignificant. The amount of water needed to benefit health would be enormous. Besides, that there may be hundreds of other useless, or even harmful substances included in that water.

Water should be transporter or nutirient, not a supplier.

I find it dubious to give advice to customers that to prevent spotting on faucets to coat them with car wax. Wow, that's the first time I heard that!

There may be pros and cons against any and all water treatment systems, but well-proven technologies still have a place and those new systems will continuously keep popping up with marketing based mostly on putting the standards down and eluding proper testing by qualified facilities.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Waterrep

09:40AM | 05/18/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
As a CWS-II, you know that for the vast majority of homeowners, a water softener IS the only "PRACTICLE" system readily available for removing or exchanging-out "minerals". R.O. is necessary to provide potable drinking water with a softener but R.O. water is low ph, R.O. systems waste a significant amount of water and, unless you re-pipe in CPVC or PEX, is not good for copper plumbing.

De-ionization is effective but not a practicle system for the average homeowner.

Wax or other sealants, works. Plumbers have used it for years. Jet-dry or LemmiShine works in dishwashers and there are many other products readily available to resolve various annoyances.

I agree that independent testing and certification (NSF, WQA, UL) is the ONLY way to determine what a product actually does. If we could get rid of the un-certified systems the public would be well-served.

Ken Hoffmann

qwerty999

07:00PM | 05/18/09
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
Of course, with RO water dedicated plumbing must be there due to the aggressiveness of RO water on any existing plumbing, particularly galvanized, as well as other metals. But an RO used for drinking water purposes comes with all the appropriate plumbing and fixtures needed to complete the system.

You're right, DI water is not practical or even recommended for residential use. I was responding to your definitive and emphatic reply that a softener is the ONLY.... Nuff said there.

Jet dry, Spot-free and all the other cleansers/detergents contain high amounts of phosphates, bi-phosphates, polyphosphates, silicates, etc., to 'soften' water chemically, many of which will never break down in the environment. In fact, a large number of states are currently banning such detergents which rob ground and surface waters of oxidation and directly affecting both flora and fauna. Dead Zones off the Maryland coast are, in part, caused by these man-made, synthetic pollutants as well as other contaminants.

That is why there is a Moms’ smuggling ring in Spokane that travel to Idaho to illegally transport TIDE, ALL and other controlled substances back to Washington.... Do you know about that?

I am not sure why there is always someone who throws the “Oh my God, it has low pH’ argument. My water comes in at 7.5 before the RO and 6.6 after the RO. What’s the problem? Besides milk and a few alkaline drinks, water has one of the highest pH levels we consume.

milk 6.8

coffee 4.9

orange juice 3.8

carbonated beverages 2.6 (WOW!!!)

even pure rainwater as combined with CO2 from the atmosphere is 5.7

distilled water 7.0

So I feel pretty good about my 6.6 (slightly acidic) water.

I think it is important to look at the full scale of comparisons before making blanket statements that are meant to influence others.

You say RO “wastes” water. Well, not really unless the auto-stop is malfunctioning. ROs have concentrate that go down the drain. This concentrate carries with it the elements that are separated by the membrane. Although that is waste water, it is not “wasted” water.

All water used in the home becomes waste water. But I try to confuse “waste” water with “wasted” water. Wasted water is the hose running in the yard as you soap down the car, or the three minute shower warm up before you step in, or the running toilet or letting water run as you brush your teeth. Water used WITHOUT purpose or function is wasted. Water used WITH purpose and function becomes waste water. This is a basic differentiation in waste water management.

Just like the water that flushes down the toilet, out of the washer or dishwasher, rinsing out the garbage disposal, etc., all have function and purpose, namely to take away what you don’t want to remain. Exactly what an RO does...for me anyway.

Now then, there are efficient toilets, washers, dishwashers and ROs as there are those that are not as efficient to do the same (or even lesser) work.

The concentrate from an RO can, arguably, be the most important waste water you produce because it affects what you consume into your body. After all, virtually 100% of the water you use since birth is either waste water or wasted water. By avoiding wasted water, you are managing your waste water. My question might be: does your waste water contain elements that destroy the environment such as those found in Jet Dry, etc.?

The best way to deal with waste water is to be able to USE it again. While I lived in a location with very limited water, my shower water was collected in a large drum that I stood in. That waste (gray) water was then used for the toilet, doubling its effectiveness and reducing total waste.

And of all the waste water you produce in the home, the RO water may be the easiest to recover and use for other purposes such plants, pets, washing, toilets, etc., if you really have a true philosophy to maintain and willing to take the simple steps and become an example to follow. My RO water goes into a five gallon bottle and we have a variety of uses, and looking for more always.

I’m trying to understand and better appreciate water, its uses, and how not to waste it. I highly value an efficient and functioning RO to provide excellent water for drinking, beverages, and recipes. Taking shorter showers, letting yellow mellow and just plain turning the water off is something all of us can do to contribute. I use ozone for my laundry which helps me avoid all detergents, soaps and hot water.

I understand your arguments, I just don’t agree with the substance, foundation and facade of the points you set forth. I’m not saying that your choices are inappropriate, dissatisfying or wasteful. I’m just concerned with my water quality and try to be aware of shortcomings as well as benefits of different water treatment systems whether for an individual, family or a whole community.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Arvidd

10:13AM | 05/20/09
Member Since: 03/27/07
4 lifetime posts
With some trepidation, I'd have to say that perhaps we at last are beginning to get somewhere. I have not detected a sub-rosa sales agenda in this post, which is quite a step in the right direction.

Waterrep

08:59AM | 05/21/09
Member Since: 05/10/09
13 lifetime posts
We can write until we're blue in the face about concepts and possible solutions to various water problems. However, the reality is that the vast majority of homeowners simply don't want to think about their water system and won't pay to have one serviced one until it breaks.

My point is that a buyer should receive sufficient information about a product before they buy one. Every system has negatives and positives. The problem for the homeowner is that every company offers real or contrived "proof" that their system is best...and their is NO "best" for every situation.

I look for practicality, value, environmental responsibility, and independent testing & certification.

Ken Hoffmann

Dawn91

06:53AM | 06/08/09
Member Since: 06/07/09
1 lifetime posts
I think most of us are more concerned with reducing scale and residue to save our appliances and reduce cleaning.

I lived in France for three years and we paid good money to drink water with the minerals in it.

I am less concerned that it can be called "soft" and more concerned with how it acts. I also would like the minerals to remain....without the salt.

I am just getting tired of the monstrosity in the garage and the sound of the "jet plane" it makes every other night around midnight. The salt and unit rental are just getting too expensive as well.

bewalsh2418

04:57AM | 06/23/09
Member Since: 06/22/09
1 lifetime posts
So not to get even further off subject. But I recently decided to just go ahead and buy a whirlpool salt based softener. I have well water that I won't be drinking either way, and the salt softeners seem to work really well at preventing build up. I went with a higher end model because it removes iron as well, and I've been having a problem with rust stains. I've been pretty happy so far.

justalurker

06:02AM | 06/23/09
Member Since: 04/25/07
25 lifetime posts
"Higher end" Whirlpool softener is an oxymoron. There is no such thing.

These box store softeners definitely work but do not work indefinitely. The control valves are manufactured out of lesser quality materials than those used in industry standard softeners.

More difficult to work on than industry standard softeners and the parts tends to be expensive.

These softeners do not do well on hard well water especially with iron in the water and are the most often complained about water treatment devices on the internet.

With a little homework you could have purchased an industry standard softener that would have provided decades of reliable service for about the same price.

With iron, any softener is better than no softener... do your routine maintenance and hope for the best.

tarwood

07:18AM | 08/04/09
Member Since: 08/03/09
1 lifetime posts
Andy C. I just want to thank you for keeping this thread real. There are others that will want to mislead people for their own agendas. I appreciate your open and straight forward posts.

bcebby5

10:20AM | 12/30/09
Member Since: 12/29/09
1 lifetime posts
I have seen several of these salt free systems using the term water softening and also utilizing the wqa seal. It is importaint to know that there is not a salt free system except for R.O. or DI that will actually soften the water. The WQA seal on these systems simply state that the water is safe to drink after water has been run through them. Systems like magnets have been around for decades, the science behind them is interesting, but usually require a constant flow and temp to work properly. If you are looking for a system that is salt free that has some real date behind it, it would be next media. It is the media used in the Watts OneFlow system and does show some impressive results, but is honest in stating that it does not soften the water. Systems like this and the pelican system create a catalist for scale creation in the flow of water and send the scale out to drain. This does not remove the hardness from your water, but will have some benifits for you hot water heater, dish washer, etc. Also some of these systems are simply glorified carbon filters that will make your water taist and feel better but again do not soften it.

When looking for the correct system it is importaint to research these systems as much as possible, and a good rule of thumb is to look for the NSF seal and WQA seal specific to what you want, ie drinking water, softening, etc.

fanikm

05:24AM | 01/10/10
Member Since: 01/09/10
1 lifetime posts
Quote from Brucet50 "I to had the problem of trying to sort through all the confusing contridictions relating to water softerners.I have chosen the pelican no salt,and i have well water.I did not want to taint the tast of my water with a salty tast.My water tast was excelent and tested for very good quality, except for the hardness. The pelican did take away that hard to clean build up on all our faucets and my wife and i notice a big difference in the feel after taking showers.Skin feels not as dry as before and all water appliances now stay very clean.I have only had the system installed for about 6 months.so as far as longeventy we will see???I am not in anyway assoiciated with any company.I do however wonder why there isn't more research and proof reguarding this all important topic.i find reading all the information reported by the many water filter companies to be in many cases only self serving. GOOD LUCK."

Brucet50 commented on this system back in in January 2009, claiming that it worked for his water. I have well water with hardness level of approx. 20 grains/gal. My questions are 1) What was the hardness of your well water? 2) Now a year has passed, is the system still working for you?

3) Is their claim correct that scale build up starts coming off once installed? 4) My understanding is that removed scale may initially clogg up various faucets and appliances. Do they recommend flushing the various water lines within the house within a aperiod of time? Hope someone can answer these questions including Brucet50.

Regards

Fanikm

chris1fman

11:49AM | 02/11/10
Member Since: 02/10/10
1 lifetime posts
Why does EasyWater have over 500 authorized plumbing companies all over the USA that carry their system in stock if these do not work? Call EasyWater and ask for one if you don't believe me. A rep gave me a list of about 100 in Indiana alone.

Why do Marriott hotels, Gatorade factories, McDonalds restuarants use EasyWater systems if they don't work?

Come on people. Don't get scared away by these salt softener sales people. Also, there are a bunch of knock off systems that don't work. The Freije EasyWater system is the one that plumbing companies use. I know not all plumbing companies are carrying them yet but if they are smart, they will be soon.

tigergeek

09:50PM | 04/02/10
Member Since: 04/02/10
1 lifetime posts
I installed a Pelican system about 1-1/2 years ago. The home is in San Diego, where our issue is salt and sulfur. It is the whole house system, including UV filter and cartridge pre-filter. We noticed major differences with the water deposits and taste; my coffee in the morning has a better flavor, a big plus. Pelican indicates the charcoal tank needs a charcoal replacement in 5 years, and I will see about the "ion" tank. But I have been impressed enough I am buying another system for use at a new home in San Diego. Maybe I am foolish, but as an engineer I tend to be anal, and the system seems to work. Plus I have a 14-month old daughter in the house, so my "anal-is" is increased.

toaglass

02:52PM | 04/27/10
Member Since: 04/26/10
1 lifetime posts
Any updates to your satisfaction with the Pelican system? I'm in Riverside Co, CA and am considering the Pelican combined softener and filter.

There are so many opinions out there and so many of them are biased. So few of them are founded on either good scientific evidence or simple experience. It's hard to know what to do.

dthomas98001

01:58PM | 06/26/10
Member Since: 06/25/10
1 lifetime posts
After seeing the Hardness Master work for myself, I'm definitely a believer in this technology. I wish I would of bought the HardnessMaster years ago and saved myself a lot of money and frustration. No complaints here!

jcbowman

10:53PM | 08/26/10
Member Since: 08/25/10
2 lifetime posts
I'll be forthcoming - I am both a Kinetico service technician and salesperson. There is no reason to separate a superior product such as Kinetico and the idea of installing the system yourself. Any reputable dealer will give you an uninstalled price.

Also, when I push to meet someone at their house, it has nothing to do with "wowing" them with my presentation. It has everything to do with putting myself in a forum where a face-to-face conversation can happen. I prefer my customers to be able to ask questions as they come up in the dialog of a conversation. Also, with my background in service and installation, I can give them good ideas about where to put their equipment.

I can't speak on behalf of every Kinetico dealer or salesperson, but I hold myself to a higher standard morally and ethically. There is myriad misinformation on the internet and I pride myself in giving people straight, unbiased facts.

If you are reading this, I think it's safe to say you're in the market for a water system of some sort. It's totally worthwhile to contact your nearest Kinetico dealer and see what is offered in your area.

jcbowman

11:03PM | 08/26/10
Member Since: 08/25/10
2 lifetime posts
I have a current customer who recently moved from Montana. Obviously, it's impossible to generalize for an entire state, especially one as large as Montana, but I understand my customer's water was much harder up there. The amount of salt used in a demand-initiated regeneration softener is directly proportional to the hardness of the water, i.e. salt usage increases as hardness increases.

alanfindaly

07:37AM | 11/04/10
Member Since: 11/03/10
1 lifetime posts
Wow, you weren't kidding about the shark liver oil. Every type of salt-less water softener I've seen is either a scam or incredibly ineffective. Don't throw your money away.

- hmsplumbing.com/services.htm

brucet50

01:43PM | 11/04/10
Member Since: 09/02/08
2 lifetime posts
Its now been a little over 2 years that I installed the Pelican no salt system.The system seems to be doing what we wanted it to do.:1-does not affect the taste of water

2-no mineral build up on faucets.

3-Seems to cause soap to lather up

4-seems to make skin feel softer(Less Hardness)

5-MOST IMPORTANT...wIFE SAYS HAIR SEEMS SOFTER AND SHE IS HAPPY.....

i AM NOT A PRO..I have no dogs in this race.....I to still feel there should be more concrete information on this most important issue.

WITHOUT SPECIFICS MY WELL TEST TESTED GOOD.WELL WITHIN THE NORM.....

Eric1962

03:22PM | 04/16/13
Member Since: 04/16/13
1 lifetime posts
There have been a major breakthrough in salteless water conditioners recently.

But I am skeptical about placing one well water over 5-6 grains hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUyG2FPUUsM

BV001138

05:24PM | 05/25/13
Read the entire post and love it! Can some please kick Ken Hoffman & LifeSourceWater out of here I can't take it anymore. Check this link out http://bestwaterpurificationblog.com/ whatever you do DO NOT BUY LIFESOURCE WATER! Ken lip service is all you got and what you say is really making you look like well what you are a cheesy, snake oil, no morals, or brain of your own to even know what you are talking about. Personally I take my hat off to I think Andy @ Kinetico who posted here, why? Kinetico is a true manufacture with its own patiented heads and uniquely designed systems proprietary to the rest out there. No I don't work for Kinetico. The rest of the so called manufactures who in reality are assemblers are stuck on the 5600 head still and believing there own lies. LifeSource, Ken, or anyone for that matter please explain how 12 x 4O GAC and the Beotron reduce TDS or hardness. I got your Beotron sitting in my garage 1 1/2 x 24 inches schdule 80 PVC pipe, 2 end caps sealed, a white crystal like media with a copper wire running down the middle of the pipe, now tell me Ken please once again that you sell a water softner alternative with no issues at 22 grains of hardness. You believe what they fed you all these years you are still drinking the koolaid man. You can't even provide rational mechicanical and or engineering proof of your claims which makes you look sorry, but like an idiot. Bob Vila, if your out there FYI and I'm sure Ken can confirm your images and testimonials are still being used in the LifeSource Water pitch, not cool. LifeSource you should be ashamed of yourself, but hey Ken tell us about the non salt system again that now comes with an anti scale media 20 inch cartridge for 500.00! Now why in the world would a water softner alternative need that?

BV001266

03:52AM | 06/09/13
Check out this article about how to choose a water softener. Very helpful!
http://www.miconstruguia.com/en/choose-a-water-softener/

BV001927

09:49PM | 08/26/13
Hello there! I have a broken down water softener, lots of iron, does anyone think that I should or shouldn't buy a salt free system. I'm kind of leaning towards salt free. Before my softener broke, I wasn't able to drink from my faucet, I would like to be able to drink the water. By the way, I have we'll water. Thanks

BV001939

11:11AM | 08/28/13
I've had a Kinetico for over 21 years and it's still running.
The only reason I wound up here is because I thouoght I would explore cheaper options when I do need to replace my current unit. Having read the postings here however, I'm going to stick with Kinetico because it does sound like you get what you pay for. I have well water also by the way.

AJ in SCV

01:21AM | 09/07/13
Member Since: 09/07/13
1 lifetime posts
Santa Clarita has HARD WATER!!! And water softeners were outlawed in our city about 7 years ago! Recently, I paid $3800 for LifeSource system in my house. When the salesman came to my house, he measured the tap water at "23" - which he claimed is very high. Yet, I don't know what it is now that I have the LifeSource, but the taste is better. However, the hardness is still there. There are water SPOTS on everything, and my hair still feels coarse after shampooing. I thought that would all change once the system was installed. In fact, my 3 yr old granite counters are being destroyed by the hard water. The laundry still has the rough feeling of the fabric when it comes out of the dryer (I use Downey fabric softener, too). I'm not happy with what I purchased. What a waste of $3800..........

BV002159

12:24PM | 09/24/13
BTW. Ken Hoffman is a sales rep for LifeSource Water Systems.

BV002192

01:22AM | 09/29/13
After reading post after post it's clear no one system is perfect. I'm no plumber, and I didn't do the math but instead of buying two systems (one to soften to remove scale and one to take care of any chlorine issue) for a few thousand bucks. Go out and purchase single individual filters and such (from what I saw a decent one is under 100 replaceable filters even cheaper) and install where needed. Take out chlorine for the clothes, soften the tub, R O the drinking. Then at least you can judge for yourself what type of water you enjoy without spending lots for something you ultimately become disappointed with. just a thought.

BV002247

01:14PM | 10/05/13
Best water softener is a really important issue,that demands scholastic market research.There are too many questions about this subject,in every housekeeping.Before someone buy a water softener,must search and answer the questions they have been created. http://homeimprovement-quote.com/
Drain cleaning tips

Navy Jay

09:10AM | 11/07/13
Member Since: 11/07/13
1 lifetime posts
I've read so many of these posts and still don't feel I got enough information one way or another about the saltless softeners - also I'm looking for a good whole house filter to filter out the usual contaminents and arsenic. Thoughts?

BV002740

08:35AM | 12/08/13
For me big question is health effects of hard water (20 grains or higher), otherwise best solution will be non-salt water conditioner not a salt base water softeners. Non-salt water conditioner still claim to protect appliance and your plumbing see example simply soft from Aquasana or Pelican which is using name softener. This is misleading simple test will show hardness will not be reduced by any of non-salt base systems magnesium and calcium will be still present in its original amount but with change structure of minerals to prevent build-up. I'd like to find some reliable source confirming hard water effect on health and reliable test by independent body to confirm effectiveness of non-salt water conditioners on appliance and plumbing.

BV003532

02:43PM | 03/13/14
I have installed magnets in three hotels. The last the "hardness" level was 1 prior to and we have raised it to 3 to save the copper pipes. Guess what? the sheets and towels are noticeably softer (as reported by our regular guests). Those of you who are foolish enough to state that magnets don't soften are either mentally blind or are seeing brown.

Patrick Shelley

BV004193

09:59AM | 05/05/14
I am a firm believer of this product and company LifeSource. When you purchase the whole house filtering unit, you need to add the ScaleSolver and Pre-sediment filter. This is a complete package. Looks like LifeSource was approved the NSF/ANSI 61 for the ScaleSolver unit on 2/4/2014. That is great news.

I have been a LifeSource customer for 5 years now. I only had the 2250SE Tank bought back in 2009. I saw that they added the new Pre-sediment filter and ScaleSolver. I was interested in learning more about this product, so I researched online for hours. I liked what I read.

When I emailed the company on a Saturday evening, not even 2 hours had past and David called me. He came to my house that Sunday night and sold me the complete unit. Since, I had a tank, he discounted my account over $600.00 and I bought a completely new system, which consisted of three items. He also threw in a box of 3 Pre-Sediment filters.

David is an awesome sales rep. He is very nice, someone you can trust. I read people like a book, since he was honest about my questions, I bought the system on Sunday night and on Thursday afternoon that same week, it was all installed by a very nice, professional installer that works for the company for many years. David and him work together on the installs. He knew what he was talking about regarding the units and how to install them the proper way without cutting corners. He is very smart and an actual license plumber. He even showed me how to maintain the units and asked me where I would like the units, and pipes to be located. He spent 4 hours to install these. Took his time and didn't leave till I was pleased. He cleaned up his mess, actually he cleaned my entire garage floor. Now it looks better then when he came. WOW, is all I can say.

Now for the best part: About the water. WOW again. It is super soft, really it is. My wife and baby notice a HUGE difference. The ScaleSolver really does the trick. My dishes have no more spots at all. My showers look very clean, no more SPOTS on my Shower doors. I almost cant believe it. For the best part, they added a Spicket in my garage so I can wash my car with the filtered water. Well, I did just that. My car cleaned very nice with no more hard spots. The soap, WATCH out. Just use half what you normally used. It spreads like crazy. My skin is super soft now. When I washed clothes they are cleaner and brighter. All in on weekend. I put this system to work and it really works. I am a firm believer and sold for life.

Thanks LifeSource and thanks David. You are an awesome rep. Just in case if you are wondering, there was no charge for Installation or delivery. I do not work for LifeSource nor got paid to write this review.
I am a customer.

BV004935

04:38PM | 07/10/14
The Pelican salt-free water softener is a scam, and we fell for it. Our house is new construction, and our water heater was brand new. Yet, despite after only using it for 8 months, the heating element failed. When a plumber came out to look into the problem, he found the bottom heating element literally coated with minerals. "This is the worst I've ever seen," he said. We bought a real water softener, which was installed 10 days after the water heater was fixed, then called Pelican to inquire about returning the useless salt-free water softener. "We need visual proof that it doesn't work," the representative said. This requires draining our 80 gallon water heater (the complete opposite of "environmentally friendly", especially with water shortages happening everywhere) and hoping that ten days of element build-up will be enough "proof" for them to return this quack device. I'm guessing it won't be. An affidavit from the plumber wasn't enough, and we had already tossed the broken, mineral-coated heating element days before, so we can't use that.

Frankly, I am appalled at Pelican's customer service, in addition to being appalled at their product. I'm guessing this review won't be posted by the corporation, but I'll cross-post it across as many sites as I can find to prevent other people from making the same thousand+ dollar mistake we did.

Regarding the review system on Pelican's website: I also notice I cannot post how many stars I give this product, yet when I look on the product's page, every single review posted has five stars? How did they get those stars? Something smells fishy, Pelican.

BV005212

08:18PM | 08/03/14
I have a knetico system in my home for years only to find out it was installed incorrect by the service tech. When I contacted them I got no response.

BV005258

09:33AM | 08/07/14
Salt free water softeners are not real water softener, they are called water conditioner or descaler. I personally used a salt based water softener. I referred to this site www.bestwatersoftenerguide.com before getting my water softener. Great resource

BV007369

09:22AM | 03/27/15
I have a Kinetico which I disabled because it made our water too soft. We were sold a softener and didn't need it. It corroded our bathroom fixtures. I did several water tests through the local health department and this is what the environmental specialist told me. Have had no problems with additional corrosion since I am not using the Kinetico. Still have the scaling and rust staining problem however and don't know what to do.

alafair

06:01PM | 04/27/15
Member Since: 04/27/15
1 lifetime posts
I want to know what unit that Arvidd decided on? i am looking for something that takes the scale out of the water [white stuff that leaves buildup on my dishes, on my shower doors, ring in my toilets] but not crazy about using salt, my parents drinking water tastes like salt to me even though they have filters and I've heard salt water softener are bad for the environment.
I also want purified drinking water throughout the house too.

BV008149

10:25AM | 06/21/15
For alafair: We have a salt-based water softener that needs replacing after 11 years, so I'm searching for a replacement and alternative softening methods and reading reviews. This is how I found your post.

We have an under sink reverse osmosis water purifier. It was only $125 at Lowes, and will last over 10 years. I installed it myself in 30 minutes. The short install time does not include the initial sanitation and pressurization cycles.

A Kinetico salesman tested our water both before and after the reverse osmosis filter. We had about 425 whatevers of "dissolved inorganics" before and after the softener. Our drinking water after the reverse osmosis filter was 17. He didn't make a sale, we saved a lot of money not buying their expensive filtering system! :)

BV008158

09:26AM | 06/22/15
I'm a plumber and I got a good evaluation on http://www.hardwaterdescaler.com/. For houses I suggest such electronic "softener" as a basic protection (its not too expensive) and without prejudice to the composition of water. Calcium and magnesium are needed for us and we get their water very much.
For drinking water I do not recommend chemical softener or reverse osmosis.

oaktownlady

11:57AM | 07/28/15
Member Since: 07/27/15
2 lifetime posts
How can the company that manufactures the Pelican brand claim to remove existing scale from plumbing without using salt? If it's possible, I'd sure like to know how. Sounds like a crock to me.

BV008924

11:20AM | 09/12/15
I bought a home that had a 10 year old Kinetico non-electric water softener in it. My son accidentally hit it and broke an elbow off. The dealer fixed it and explained to me how they work. I pointed out that my family of 6 was using about 1/2 the salt with the Kinetico as compared to 2 electric systems we had in previous homes. Three weeks later, I quit my job selling Sears siding and went to work selling Kinetico's for him. That was 25 years ago. I have sold or rented over 4000 Kinetico's to date.
Phil's picture

BV010429

04:16PM | 02/08/16
I installed both the whole house carbon filter system and Natursoft Salt-free system in June 2013.

The Pelican Natursoft salt free system does nothing to help my hard water issues. It claims to condition the water to prevent internal scaling in appliances and water heaters, etc...; After 2.5 years, i suffered from damage to my water heaters and other electronic systems from the hard water in my city (14 gpg level). IT DOES NOT WORK SO I DO NOT RECOMMEND BUYING ANY SALT-FREE SYSTEM TO ADDRESS YOUR HARD WATER PROBLEMS.

Pelican has shady customer service and reviewing system. Take note that none of their "reviews" on their site are negative, and they surely failed to post my 1-star negative review.

I wish Pelican Water should have just recommended me to purchase their salt-based ion exchange system (traditional system), as I would be a happier customer.

Their 90-day warranty is bologna! You won't be able to validate the effects of hard water damage to your system/appliance in that time. The damage will have to take much longer time (over a year, in general) to manifest itself.

Pelican Water - DON'T RECOMMEND THEIR SALES PRACTICES

Salt-free "softener" - DON'T BE FOOLED BY *ANY* SALT-FREE SYSTEM FOR HIGH LEVELS OF HARD WATER

Got myself a Kinetico salt exchange softener to replace that piece of junk.

angelopolinario

11:00PM | 11/26/16
Member Since: 11/26/16
1 lifetime posts
Hey Guys here is the best Water Softener in the Market.

https://www.aaawatersolutions.com/collections/water-softeners/products/combo-price-water-softener-plus-5-stage-ro-system

Bella_Jeri

06:27AM | 04/17/17
Member Since: 04/17/17
1 lifetime posts
Basically, there are total 4 types of water softeners available for treating hard water. The types include the salt based water softeners, salt-less water softeners, dual-tank softener systems, and the final one is the Magnetic Water Softener. This final is more of a descaler in nature.

You can find the detailed information about this in water softener reviews at WaterGadget.com, and understand clearly.

If you wish to buy the best, and the top recommended system for home purpose. You can opt for the fleck water softener reviews[2] , and I personally recommend this system for you.

Regards,
Bella

BV016849

08:03AM | 07/11/18
I would suggest to try Hard Water Treatment System EWC MAX-i from H2O Elite Labs. It can handle up to 35 gpg (grains per gallon) or 598 ppm of Calcium Hardness. It is actually better than many water softeners and it is salt-free, maintenance free as well. For More details: www.h2oelitelabs.com/

rikflaxman

05:56PM | 07/26/19
Member Since: 07/13/19
5 lifetime posts
How do I know which product is the best among the ones listed here? https://11must.com/best-faucet-water-filter/

BV019987

12:35PM | 08/06/19
I live in Florida where the water is hard. We had purchased a whirlpool 15 yrs ago and it if anything,it stopped the scum and build-up on my appliances. However, we stopped using it 2 years ago, it broke. My husband now has a skin issue, almost like a eczema. Could it be the whirlpool did more than we know? We are looking at culligan and others. Which one should we use? not too concern about drinking it. Looking to filter the house.

wwright12

11:49PM | 08/15/19
Member Since: 08/15/19
5 lifetime posts
For environmental reasons, I chose the Aquasana salt-free water softener for my house. It has no chlorine evaporation and can also reduce emissions of lead, mercury, herbicides and other pollutants. This article also introduces other salt-free water softeners that may be useful to you: [url=https://www.gearhunder.com/best-water-softener-reviews/]https://www.gearhunder.com/best-water-softener-reviews/[/url]


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