08:52PM | 12/20/07
Member Since: 12/20/07
1 lifetime posts
Hi everyone

I need some serious help

My mom & dad just had a salesman from Cleenwater come to their house ( and sold them a salt-free softener.

They financed it for $4,400 and I'm really worried that they might of gotten ripped-off (they're in their 70's).

They have a 3day right of recission so I'm gonna to cancel it if it's not legitamate.

Is this a good/fair/reasonable price for this kind of technology?


05:34AM | 12/21/07
Member Since: 04/25/07
25 lifetime posts
As I read the cleenwater web site they are selling conditioners and not softeners.

If your parents are interested in soft water they need a softener to eliminate the hardness in the water. A conditioner will not do that.

Kill the deal and also do it in writing by certified letter. Read the fine print in the contract and make sure there are no specific gymnastics you need to go through to kill the deal.

Get your parents together with a local water treatment professional or two or three and have them quote your parents water treatment needs. Review and compare them and ask your questions.


05:43AM | 12/21/07
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
It is not a SOFTENER! Period.

The valve is a Fleck 5600 (probably a timer) and one of the cheapest available.

The same thing can be put in by a plumber for around $400 - $600.

I agree with a cerified letter if you are going to cancel, even with a notery public.

What werre the water test results?

Good luck,

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Gary Slusser

10:02AM | 12/26/07
Member Since: 02/17/04
112 lifetime posts
I hope you had then cancel the purchase and the refund is in the mail but...

That is the way many local dealers do business. Their goal is to get the local people to call them and then rush a salesman out to do his damnedest to get a contract signed.

I suggest they are crooks and sad to say but most are WQA Certified and they usually sell national brand name equipment.

The vast majority of independent local dealers (and to my knowledge no online dealer) do not use a contract and they charge less for their equipment but, their equipment is as good and in some cases better than the national brands.

That's because the independent dealer and most of the national brand dealers are using Autotrol, Clack or Fleck control valves. And although the national brand version may be proprietary, the independent version is industry standard off the shelf stock version and nothing is proprietary.

That means you can buy parts locally or online from many dealers, while you are left totally dependent on the national brand dealer for service and parts because the valve is proprietary to only them.

That's why I've been an independent dealer for over 21 years. Justalurker is a softener customer and Andy is a Kinetico salesman; a REALLY PROPRIETARY one of a kind water powered control valve.

So I suggest you and your parents look online and buy a correctly sized water softener using a Clack WS-1 control valve. And since this is a DIYer forum, install it yourselves or learn how to if you guys don't know how to solder. Or hire a plumber. My guess is the softener would be delivered for less than like $700 with everything you need to install it except the pipe and a few elbows.

The Clack WS-1 is the best because the Clack is the latest improved version of the Fleck piston seal and spacer design and the easiest of all control valves to repair. I was designed to be that way.


Quality Water Associates


07:18PM | 12/26/07
Member Since: 04/25/07
25 lifetime posts
"Justalurker is a softener customer and Andy is a Kinetico salesman"

Andy and I gave the OP the best advice in a timely manner so they could cancel the order within the 3 day period.

You replied a couple days too late to help the OP and as usual with a self-serving sales pitch.


10:32AM | 02/13/08
Member Since: 02/12/08
3 lifetime posts
It is not a water softener, but it's not supposed to be one. It is designed to be an alternative system for people who don't want soft water because of salt (potassium chloride is a salt) or because of the maintenance issues with changing filters or membranes.

It is a much better product than the other junk on the web that doesn't use salt (EWS, Lifesource, Pelican) and when you compare the costs VS a softener, it isn't any more of a rip off than Kinnetico, Culligan, or any other water treatment device. It is actually a good buy at $4400 if your parents got the combo tank because the same technology can be found at for $5800.

At least CleenWater has certifications from WQA and IAPMO.

The guys criticizing it are obviously salt water softener sales guys that are afraid that the end is near for their products.


10:43AM | 02/13/08
Member Since: 02/12/08
3 lifetime posts
Chances are, if the parents bought the system, they didn't want a softener. Too many softener companies and salespeople like the ones in this forum fail to see that about 50% of the consumers HATE WATER SOFTENERS once they buy one. I used to be a plumber and most people stop using the softener because they don't like the slippery feel or the maintenance, not to mention the salty taste.

For someone who has played the softener games before, the CleenWater system or others like it are the only other option for water treatment. The results aren't the exact same as a softener, but these types of systems are actually better at providing cleaner water than softeners. They are good products, especiallly for those who want the chemicals out of their water.


01:07PM | 02/14/08
Member Since: 04/01/05
32 lifetime posts
..."Too many softener companies and salespeople like the ones in this forum fail to see that about 50% of the consumers HATE WATER SOFTENERS once they buy one."

That may be true since there is a lot of junk out there. The vast majority of my sales are replacement units. Nonetheless, 50% soundsd like an uneducated guess.

Maybe what you wanted to say is "softened water" rather than "water softeners". It is a very rare occurance that someone I have helped with water HATES soft water. And those extremely few cases are most commonly due to misconceptions of what is happening to their water. I follow up in person on every sale and have them complete a questionnaire, as well as some other tasks, and I have yet come across anyone who said they hated the water.



08:23AM | 02/26/08
Member Since: 02/18/08
2 lifetime posts
Having been in the water conditioning business for over 30 years, most of our customers learn to expect the taste and feel of a water softener. As a plumber, you probably were paid to remove a few water softeners, so your information is skewered based on your limited audience.


10:13PM | 05/27/08
Member Since: 02/12/08
3 lifetime posts
Just to let you know, I have recently spoken with a few customers who have the system and the general feedback is very positive. The biggest benefit for most of them is the taste/smell/cleanliness of the water and the low maintenance. They all paif over $4K for their systems and none had any complaints for what they got. I think it only fair that this info be on this thread.
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