Latest Discussions : Painting

3angels

06:33PM | 08/13/01
Member Since: 08/12/01
1 lifetime posts
I am about to paint a room with one of the new textured paints offered by Ralph Lauren or Behr. The Behr is "sand wash" and the Ralph Lauren is "river rock". I discovered the Behr while I was on vacation but cannot find it in my area. The sales person at the hardware store suggested that I use the ralph lauren, which is just as good. I have read and heard terrible things about the ralph lauren paint, is the Behr just as bad?

Jay J

08:41AM | 08/16/01
Member Since: 10/26/00
782 lifetime posts
Hi 3angles,

Sorry, I didn't see your post when it was originally written. Hopefully, you'll get a chance to read it before too long.

ANyways, I'm no fan of Behr and Ralph Lauren paints. Both are sold at Home Depot. I don't care what discound HD gets from the mfgrs. because it's still cheap. In fact, I own stock in HD and wouldn't suggest you buy that paint.

What I suggest you do is open the YELLOW PAGES and look under PAINT - RETAIL. Visit your local Retail Paint Store and buy your paint from them. Yes, you'll pay $15 - $30 a gallong. But 1) you'll have a MUCH higher quality paint (because you get what you pay for), 2) you won't be painting again in a few years, 3) it covers well and adheres well.

I've spoken to the mfgrs. that make Behr and Ralph Lauren. IN short, HD tells them what THEY want in their paints. Hence, the mfgrs. mix the paint based on the Retailer's recommendations. If you want a cheaper paint, then you cut back on the solids and oils and such. Pratt & Lambert, for example, make a good paint sold under THEIR brand name. But if you were to go to Walmart and buy the Walmart brand, you may see P & L's name on it BUT only as the mfgr.; NOT as the 'marketing name'. Again, you see, P & L makes the paint based on Walmart's specifications. It's NOT P & L's fault the paint is 'bad'; it's the specifications that make it bad.

My best to ya and hope this helps.

Jay J -Moderator

Lawrence

11:54AM | 08/16/01
Member Since: 11/14/00
333 lifetime posts
I have used Ralph Lauren paints, and I had nothing but great experience with their ordinary paints. They do cover rather well in my experience and look great. The Behr paints I have used have not covered as well.

As for the River Rock, I considered using it but eventually decided against it. First, the biggest problem with using the texture paints by RL is that the application is not nearly as easy as it sounds. The most common problem is when seams form at the roller edges that do not "roll out" as easily as they do with normal paint. It takes an experienced hand (or a lucky one) to get it right the first time. (By experienced, I mean experienced with applying the RL texture paints, not with paint, in general).

Second, the main thing I liked about the River Rock was the subtle specks of complimentary colors that the samples showed. It seemed to provide an overall depth of color that I liked. However, in practice, those specks do not show up much, if at all. Moreover, they are visible up close, but not at all from afar, which is how you look at walls (unless you are the type to habitually stand up close to a wall and face it... in which case you have more problems than I want to discuss). Because I looked at the samples closer to my eye than I ever would look at walls, I was getting a misimpression of how it would look on the wall.

So I would go with an ordinary top-quality paint, not the River Rock.

sputnik47

11:30AM | 01/22/02
Member Since: 01/21/02
2 lifetime posts
Jay J:

I don't know who you talked to at "mfgrs. that make Behr and Ralph Lauren" but whoever you talked to is full of cr*p. The manufacturer who makes Behr is Behr. The paint they make is as good or in most cases far better than the paint sold is your local retail store. HD does not dictate what paint manufacturers put in their products. Being a paint "expert" I'm sure that you know that Behr makes water-based paint that does not contain "oil". I would hope as moderator you would get your facts straight before making ridiculous accusations.

BobF

01:24AM | 01/24/02
Member Since: 10/19/98
223 lifetime posts
Sputnik - You are out of line and sadly misinformed. HD, Walmart and others can and do dictate what goes into products sold at their stores. When you are as BIG as they are, you can do that. Why - if they couldn't dictate they would take their contract elsewhere.

The pro painters I know would never touch Behr, Ralph Lauren, or any paint sold by a discount chain or big box. Their reputation depends on consistent quality.

Mustang

12:55PM | 01/24/02
Member Since: 01/22/02
101 lifetime posts
Interesting, you guy's are talking about something that's never really occured to me. Can/or does, the retailer dictate to the paint company how to formulate their paints?? Hmmm!! Intuitivly I would think retailers could only go so far in making demands on paint suppliers, seems to me top companies (Behr, PPG, Dupont)have their reputations to uphold so it's hard to believe they'd put anything they're told in a can.

sputnik47

05:28PM | 02/06/02
Member Since: 01/21/02
2 lifetime posts
BobF:

At the risk of starting a flame-war, I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken. I know for a fact that the Big Box stores don't tell the paint companies what to put in their paint because the big retailers don't know what goes into paint nor do they care. Retailers of all sizes buy products based on price, service, quality, and delivery not on what is in the product.

As far as professional painters buying at the the big boxes, all you have to do is sit outside the commercial register at HD and watch how many 5 gallon containers of paint get loaded into commercial vans and pickups.

The real reason a lot of pro-painters won't buy from the big-boxes is that the small distributors schmooze the pros with things like free coffee, donuts, game tickets, etc., and have long-standing relationships. Most importantly, for the pros, since they are usually small businessmen, they get "free" credit at the distributor.

I know I'm not going to convince you since you're so adamant in your stance, but for the uninformed, I'm just setting the record straight.

'Nuff said.

Alan

05:35AM | 02/07/02
Member Since: 10/09/01
48 lifetime posts
Let's compromise - it's a no win thing.

Most manufacturers produce a customized/low-end product for the big guys. This would include a personized label and a product based on a price set by the customer - which would of course dictate the quality. As everybody's idea of quality differs, this will satisfy some but not others - ie those that want the best available.

I think the above is common knowledge - so let's move on. Alan


Jay J

04:28PM | 02/07/02
Member Since: 10/26/00
782 lifetime posts
Me, move on??! Not w/o first making MY final statement on this.

I DID call the mfgrs. of a few paint companies and DIRECTLY asked them why I should pay 3x's the price for their paint at the local Paint Retailer vs. buying it at the Big Box Store. They DIRECTLY said that the reason it costs so much less at the Big Box Stores (BBS) is because the ingredients are formulated to the Big Box store's specifications. I'm not going to debate whether or not the BBS writes down the specific amount of solids or color or whatever. I WILL tell you, sputnik47, that the BBS DO tell the paint mfgrs. that they want a paint that's competitive and priced "a certain way" for their customers. Understand this - From where I'm sitting, the folks that frequent the BBS for paint are NOT the same folks (percentage-wise) that frequent the local Paint Retailer. The LPRs customers are, by far, contractors whose livelyhoods depend on quality material. Fact is fact. Call Pratt and Lambert and ask them what I asked them. Don't think for a minute that the paint in EITHER store is the same. If it was, it WOULDN'T matter which store you bought it from. YOU can sit there and do the comparisons of the 2 products. P & L doesn't care what ******* wants in the paint. I've got my facts straight, sir. It sounds like you're out of touch.

Best,
Jay J -Moderator

PS: Put your foot back in your mouth because my so-called 'rediculous accusations' are TRUTH. Pick up the phone and get back in the loop. Make the call!!!

PPS: Nuff said by me now ...

PPPS: GOd Bless America!

Jon3222

02:47AM | 02/12/02
Member Since: 10/15/01
4 lifetime posts
I just wanted to post and let you all know that places like HD do in fact have a major say in the paint lines they sell. Now HD does not make the formula or anything But they do tell Behr, Glidden, Ralph who is gonna have the better paint in there store. I know for a fact that Glidden is not allowed to put there high end paint lines in because HD wants Behr to be there High end paint line between the to. That is why you will notice that Evermore, and America Finest is not sold at any Independent dealers only the Home Depot because it is a special mix made just for them. The way Home Depot puts it is they want Behr sold as the top plus they get a biger kick back, and glidden to be to the middle class paint. I do know for a fact that Glidden has tried many of time to put better paint lines into Home Depot but they have been rejected everytime they try. So to ever doubts this just call 1-800-Glidden or try Behr and they will tell you the same thing.

Mustang

05:53AM | 02/12/02
Member Since: 01/22/02
101 lifetime posts
If what you say is true then Glidden is somewhat foolish. Years ago I used to buy Glidden paint, until I realized this is some pretty ****ty stuff, and will never but Glidden again. Once a customer gets a bad taste in their mouth for a given product it's extremely difficult to get that customer back. As I said in the previous note above, these companies have their reputations to think of. Evidently, this hasn't hurt Glidden enought because they're still out there. But no more business from me.

Jon3222

06:48AM | 02/14/02
Member Since: 10/15/01
4 lifetime posts
But the thing is its not just Glidden. SW, PPG, Valspar, Fuller OBrien, Devoe, Behr they all do it because its the only way they can get there paint in the stores. If you ask me its pretty crappy that those big stores make them do that in the first place. Personally I will not by paint from a HD or ***** because there products arent as good as if you were to by Glidden or Behr from a Mom and Pop shop.

MrPaint

02:12PM | 02/04/03
Member Since: 02/03/03
196 lifetime posts
You people are funny! Sound like the "Ford/Chevy" arguement to me! Opinions are like elbows - everyone has at least two!

I will say though J - as a moderator you should watch what you say - The major paint manufacturers watch these types of sites all the time - You will look foolish if you are mistaken in your facts (opinions?)

Just so you all know...... The four largest paint companies in the world (2002)

Akzo-Nobel - Belgium
PPG - U.S.A.
ICI Paints (Glidden) - England
Sherwin Williams - U.S.A.

Many of the brands in this thread are made by one of these companies.....including P&L - who was bought out by SW many years ago.

And if you think that the dealers who sell P&L don't tell SW what type of product performance they want - and what they want to pay - you don't know what a free market is.

Mr. Paint

Wolley

04:51PM | 02/08/03
Hi! In reply to Sputnik47, if he is still watching this forum, I must agree with Jay J. for 2 reasons. First, my father was a salesman for a big abrasive company, and this is exactly what he used to do. On his order pad, he had 2 cat. numbers: one for small retail stores, and one for discount stores. The latter received sandpaper from batches that didn't meet the specs, but were still acceptable, while retail stores got the good stuff. The second reason why I truly agree with Jay J is that I just finished painting my bedroom with paint that I bought at a retail store for better service, more friendly relationship, and better accessories available (rollers, brushes, etc). But when I needed more paint to finish my job last Wednesday night, my small paint store was closed, so I went to the big warehouse store in my neighborhood to buy a pint to finish my work. I bought what appeared the same thing (same brand, same cat.# and sheen. At first sight, the labels were similar. To my surprise, it didn't spread as well as the paint I bought from the paint store, and it dried faster, making it difficult to keep a "wet edge". When I compared the two cans, I realized that the word "Classic" appears in small letters on the can I bought from the big warehouse, but not on the can from the retail store. Plus they sell their gallons 3$ higher than my small paint store. When the paint dried, it was not exactly the same finish, being a little bit shinier than what I had bought originally. So I truly beleive that discount stores don't sell exactly the same thing than the small retail stores. And Jay J. and my father are not the only ones who told me that story.


eddi3e

03:28AM | 02/13/03
Member Since: 02/12/03
3 lifetime posts
This is a response I received from Glidden this morning, I had written them asking if there is a difference in quality of there products between what is sold at independent retailers and HDs.

(Anyway recently did the entire interior of my home with Benjamin Moore...very satisfied!)

Thank you for contacting Glidden Paints. We appreciate the time you took
to contact us.

We sell quality products both at the Home Depot and through our Independent
Retailers. The Home Depot can buy paint in a larger quantity, therefore
their price will be lower.

If you need further assistance, please contact us at GliddenPaint@ici.com
or via our customer dedicated number at 1-800-GLIDDEN (454-3336). Customer
Service Representatives are available Monday through Friday 8:00 am to 8:00
pm and Saturdays from 10:00 am to 5:00 pm. Eastern Standard Time.

Thank you,


Lori Calhoun
Consumer Call Center Agent
The Glidden Company www.GliddenPaint.com

rpxlpx

06:07AM | 02/13/03
Member Since: 03/13/00
1674 lifetime posts
Cool. A conspicuously incomplete non-answer from Glidden.

5slb6

03:01PM | 02/13/03
Member Since: 07/28/02
1356 lifetime posts
Boy this is fun.

I work for one of the largest paint manufactuers of paint in the USA, Duron.

Yes we are good to our customers because that is all we do is paint, but free coffee, donuts etc. will not keep the proffessional painter coming back if the paint and the service are bad. I dare say we match more colors from the big boxes than they do of ours. The painters that I deal with do not go to HP, Loews Etc. because their reputation is built on how the job looks and holds up and if the paint does not cover or work well it just ends up costing them money.

I am sure that the big retailers can afford to pay someone to tell the paint manufactures how they want the paint made. Also they can tell them what type of price point they want to sell the paint for and then the paint companies can make a product to fit into that range that is if they want the contract to sell there.

We use to have our paint in HP but they did not want our premiun line as I am sure it would have made the Behr look bad.

Have a great day everyone.



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