Latest Discussions : Basement & Foundation

KingVolcano

04:37AM | 07/27/06
Member Since: 03/03/05
273 lifetime posts
I have not tried that product, but please allow me to add a comment.

Water/hydrostatic pressure can be a real bugger to prevent. Your surface prep is the most important aspect of the project. If you do not have a proper profile and a clean, dry surface, no product will work.

Clean, open the pores and address cracks will a filler and you will start on the right track.

Unless you had your basement floor tested for hydrostatic pressure, you do not have a baseline. Again, hydrostatic pressure is a real bugger and it will find the weakest area and exploit it.


LicensedWaterproofer

10:53AM | 07/27/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


lets see, according to the Better Business Bureau, these guys have an 'unsatisfactory record' due to answered complaints.

they do NOT do waterproofing, but you go ahead and keep pushing.

Sanitred says Exterior Wall Waterproofing is NOT necessary and is a waste of time etc, lol. Now, thats a buncha crap!

Of course they say SHTT like this, they want unkowing folks to buy their Inside products.

Here, Sanitred, i`ll prove that you claim(s) are wrong,deceptive,etc. Have several estimates i just ran, hollow-block wall, all leak due to CRACKS on Outside of blocks. So, you send me yer products, i`ll apply them 'correctly/perfectly' and we`ll see how long it`ll keep water out.

Fact is, it will NOT!

ONLY way to stop/prevent water from entering cracks `n other openings on Outside of hollow-block wall is...from the OUTSIDE, lol.

And since it will not stop/prevent water from entering the block wall it`ll also NOT stop/prevent mold,mildew,efflorescence,radon gas, termites and other insects that Enter these SAME cracks.

It alos will Not and Cannot stop/prevent/lessen/relieve Hydrostatic `n lateral SOIL pressure that, AHEM, causes walls to Crack, leak, bow etc. Tree roots can also crack `n push against basement walls, wake up will ya please! And tell the TRUTH.

6th para.... http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp

http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH058_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

Some do not have a clue and ONLY wish to get into your savings account, THATS the truth.


bpbassman

11:32AM | 07/27/06
Member Since: 07/26/06
2 lifetime posts
Thanks for the info. I have read a variety of threads and such on this, as well as numerous articles and it seems as though handling the outside is the way to go. I live in Ohio..had Ohio State Waterproofing come and give me an estimate. A little pricey but seems worth it, as it adresses not only water from outside the walls but under the slab and footers etc. Anyone have any experience with this company?

LicensedWaterproofer

11:50AM | 07/27/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


...according to Better Business Bureau that Ohio State Waterproofing has 18 customer complaints in the last 36 months.

i`m not taking a big dump on them or anyone, just want to get ALL DA facts out here, no harm, just facts. Its the homeowners i give a shtt about, not these so-called experts. do what you like, its your home/money

search BBB yourself, punch in company and state and away ya go

http://search.bbb.org/

SaniTred

06:36AM | 08/10/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
It would seem that ‘Licensed/Waterproofer’ has some strong feelings that diverting exterior water is the ONLY thing to do in ALL basements regardless of all circumstances. That is an opinion which he is certainly are entitled to. Misinformation doesn't go unnoticed.

Licensed/Waterproofer states:

“lets see, according to the Better Business Bureau, these guys have an 'unsatisfactory record' due to answered complaints.”

When a customer applies Sani-Tred products on top of paint, tar or standing water against our instruction, it would be difficult for anyone to say “good job, you applied it correctly, I think it will work”. Those 3 individuals went off to the bureau to report how they FELT. Anyone in the USA can get on that bureau and say anything about anyone regardless whether or not it is true, hones or valid. The better business bureau has us listed 3 times as ‘unanswered’. We contacted the bureau, asked them “why it is listed as unanswered, we did answer, the materials were obviously improperly applied look at the photos”, they responded “it’s just a glitch in the system because we see all your responses and replies”. Oh well … what can ya do? I’d say 3 glitches are EXCELLENT for a 23 year track record. We also found out that if you pay your bureau dues, you don’t get written up. We don’t contribute to the better business bureau because they list positive results to systems that DO NOT WORK.

Licensed/Waterproofer states:

“Here, Sanitred, i`ll prove that you claim(s) are wrong,deceptive,etc. Have several estimates i just ran, hollow-block wall, all leak due to CRACKS on Outside of blocks. So, you send me yer products, i`ll apply them 'correctly/perfectly' and we`ll see how long it`ll keep water out.”

No problem and the basement would never see a molecule of water, but you need to calm yourself. I doubt that you truly understand how and why Sani-Tred products have a 100% success rate. I think you need to understand that YOU are the only person saying that we don’t approve of any exterior work. You of all people should know that there is a proper tool for each job. Sani-Tred products will not allow a single molecule of water, moisture, vapor or even problem radon to enter any basement in the world. That’s our job, we keep the water out. Drains relieve standing water which can reduce ‘negative hydrostatic pressure’ but can not truly WATERPROOF. Don’t you see? Drains move water, they don’t waterproof.

Licensed/Waterproofer states:

“It alos will Not and Cannot stop/prevent/lessen/relieve Hydrostatic `n lateral SOIL pressure that, AHEM, causes walls to Crack, leak, bow etc. Tree roots can also crack `n push against basement walls, wake up will ya please! And tell the TRUTH.”

Are you saying that lateral soil pressure can be solved with a drain or that WE SAY that a permanent flexible coating will? If the earth wants to push through a foundation, I’d say that you have bigger problems than waterproofing. Wouldn’t you say so yourself? If you have a tree root pushing through a foundation, how will even an absolutely permanent waterproof rubber coating stop it? The problem is the tree not water or Sani-Tred. What are you reading? Not our website. Why don’t you call our office and say that you have a “hollow block foundation, say that lateral soil pressure is heaving in your walls and tree roots are popping through”. Use your common sense; of course no one on this planet would just say “coat it and the roots will disappear, the earth will stop moving, and the ground will dry up”. Even in that situation, Sani-Tred products would waterproof it, but even Sani-Tred products have their limitations, 600% elongation is amazing, but not if a structure moves beyond the material’s flexibility. Those things are beyond anyone’s control; all the drains, coatings, pumps and dehumidifiers in the world can’t stop acts of god.

Where do we state that Sani-Tred products will eliminate, prevent, lessen or relieve hydrostatic pressure? www.sanitred.com

Dictionary Definition:

WATERPROOF - Made of or coated or treated with rubber, plastic, or a sealing agent to prevent penetration by water. Not permitting the passage of water. The proper term for material that completely keeps out water. Treatment of a surface or structure to prevent the passage of water under hydrostatic pressure. The process where a building component is made totally resistant to the passage of water and/or water vapor.

Exterior Drainage: Can be installed IF and only IF a home has enough slope to run water away. Inner city homes may not be able to do this at all. This can ONLY reduce ‘standing water’ surrounding the home. This will not dry up the earth. This can not stop moisture/vapor transmission nor eliminate problem radon. It certainly has its uses, no one in their right mind would refute this, but it can’t ‘waterproof’.

Interior Drainage: Can be installed inside of just about any home any time of the year. Encouraging water to enter a basement just to pump it back out again IS NOT WATERPROOFING. God forbid the electricity goes out while it rains, like that’s never happened before. Oh yeah, that’s what battery back up systems are for, back up pumps, replacement pumps, dehumidifiers, sheet materials behind finished walls … Nonsense, this does a whole lot of stuff, none of which is WATERPROOFING. Can anyone honestly say that this little pump is going to pump down the surrounding water table in every home every time? Can a pump stop 100% of all water, moisture, vapor and problem radon?

Exterior Coatings: Only seals the exterior of the wall down to the footer. Big deal … water, moisture, vapor and problem radon can still enter through the floor and the wall/floor junction. Exterior coatings only divert water to the ‘next least rout of resistance’.

Exterior Drains With Exterior Coatings: Great, you’ve eliminated standing water from around the home, sealed the exterior of the wall, but this still leaves the floor and wall/floor joint susceptible. Don’t blame us, we didn’t invent the laws of physics or the laws of nature. Even garage floors that are slab on grade suffer from ‘moisture vapor drive’ which is moisture wicking up through concrete against gravity. This natural force delaminates all other coatings.

Fact #1 - The truth is most of our customers have ALREADY installed gutters, downspouts, exterior and interior drainage to find that they don’t work like they assumed it would. The fact is none of the above STOP water, moisture, vapor or radon in its tracks just tries to redirect it. Think about it. It can’t waterproof.

Fact #2 - Sani-Tred products do permanently adhere and will never bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate or leak for the lifetime of the structure. I’m sorry to say nothing will stand up to ‘massive earth movement’ beyond the performance of the products. PermaFlex – 590% elongation and LRB – 600% elongation.

Fact #3 – If a Sani-Tred waterproofed home was lifted out of the ground and submerged 8’ deep, Sani-Tred products would not bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate or leak. No one is saying that it’s a good idea to have a home built in 8’ deep water. Statistics and test results are sometimes just numbers unless put into laymen’s terms. The fact is Sani-Tred products do withstand more negative hydrostatic pressure than can possibly occur in any foundation. That doesn’t mean 8’ of standing water is a good thing to have. Remember, the right tool for the right job. Our system will waterproof it 100%. Standing water will not just go away and we are not claiming that it will.

FACT #4 – The only way to positively waterproof 100% of the walls and floors is to treat 100% of the walls and floor that is below grade. This can never happen from the exterior.


LicensedWaterproofer

10:08AM | 08/10/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


i knew you`d try `n wiggle out of it

you are right about the BBB one way, IF one is a Member-pays the BBB then, yep, lets say they at least get preferential treatment & then some, No Doubt about that!

i will Prove Sanitred and other products applied on Inside are misleading and will Not stop/prevent water from entering a dang crack in a block wall. you do NOT have a 100% success rate ya nimrod but you go `head and keep pushing on, thats what you do well.

Hey, if ya have root(s) against the darn wall then, TAKING the ROOTS OFF the Wall, waterproofing the wall and backfilling w/peastone Relieves that.....Pressure.

did you finish 6th grade cuz, most 6th graders understand this for pete sake.

look man, dammittt, hey, lolol, after 28 years of exterior waterproofing and no customer complaints, unlike YOU and Other INSIDE co`s, i KNOW what works and what doesn`t.

Personally, i don`t know how some of you people sleep at night.

SaniTred

12:05PM | 08/10/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
LicensedWaterproofer States:

“i knew you`d try `n wiggle out of it”

Wiggle out of what? Licensed Waterproof, are you one of those 3 on the BBB? Just kidding. Seriously, I don’t think you understand how different systems can compliment each other. Exterior drainage does serve a purpose to reduce pressure if pressure exists among other things (as you crudely pointed out). Sani-Tred is a positive, flexible, permanently adhered, lifetime vapor barrier/radon barrier.

~ Keep in mind that I am not belittling you or anyone’s occupation when I ask this ~ How can you honestly say that moisture CAN NOT enter through a floor just because a drain is on the exterior? Please explain this to me. Everyone and I already know that moisture is always present under a slab.

LicensedWaterproofer States:

“i will Prove Sanitred and other products applied on Inside are misleading and will Not stop/prevent water from entering a dang crack in a block wall.”

I sincerely hope you are not saying that we tell people that when Sani-Tred products are applied to the interior of the foundation it will stop water/moisture from entering the exterior of the block itself. Sani-Tred products will guarantee that not a single molecule of water, moisture, vapor or even problem radon will ever enter the interior of the basement itself. If there is a crack on the exterior of the block, of course water can enter through the exterior of that crack, however nothing will ever enter the living space or behind finished walls. That’s the whole point and the purpose of Sani-Tred products.

You say ‘misleading’, what specifically is misleading? You copy/paste specifically what sentence is misleading and I will personally reword it if you’re correct. Nowhere do we say that we repel roots, stop the earth from moving or anything you are saying. You are trying to mislead others. Anyone should be able to see that.

LicensedWaterproofer States:

“Hey, if ya have root(s) against the darn wall then, TAKING the ROOTS OFF the Wall, waterproofing the wall and backfilling w/peastone Relieves that.....Pressure.”

I thought we already covered the whole root thing. Ha ha ha. Root removal is not our specialty.

LicensedWaterproofer States:

“look man, dammittt, hey, lolol, after 28 years of exterior waterproofing and no customer complaints, unlike YOU and Other INSIDE co`s, i KNOW what works and what doesn`t. Personally, i don`t know how some of you people sleep at night.”

I am not here to start a fight, calm down … You are saying that our company is making claims that we certainly ARE NOT. Do not take offense when I say that you are uninformed when it comes to these materials, you’re making assumptions, false statements and passing them along as facts. Just say that it’s your opinion.


LicensedWaterproofer

01:13AM | 08/11/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


misleading? ....well, lets start with

http://www.sanitred.com/waterproofing/basement_waterproofing/waterproofing_myths_vs_reality.html

YOU...state,supposed fact #1.....

"it is impossible to waterproof a basement from the outside"

This is what you say and correct me if i`m wrong, you do NOT do basement waterproofing-foundation work, right?

You DO SELL Products that are applied on the Inside of basements, right?

ok, back to YOUR supposed fact which YOU claim 'basements cannot be waterproofed from the outside'...this is a big load do-do

hey, most basement get water inside,on floor along cold joint/cove due to, cracks and other openings-crevices that are on the Outside. Um, so...knock knock...is there anybody IN there? To waterproof, to stop & prevent water from ENTERING one would need to go outside and waterproof,seal,tuckpoint,caulk etc these.....cracks and other openings in basement walls and ABOVE basement walls.

When one stops the water/moisture from entering and seals these openings then, they`ll also stop/prevent mold,efflorescence,radon gas, termites `n other insects which would otherwise, still be able to enter/grow if not waterproofed etc.

Quite a darn few basement walls BOW inward due to, lateral and hydrostatic SOIL Pressure that is against the outside of basement walls, tree roots can also cause cracks to WIDEN,bowing of walls so, ahem...knock knock, the ONLY way to take this Outside Pressure-roots off the walls is....from the Outside, lolol, geeeezuz!

This is accomplished by getting rid of the expanding-contracting SOIL, waterproofing the cracks/wall and, repklacing that Soil with gravel which provides the LEAST pressure against walls and provides FULL and IMMEDIATE Drainage along walls....ya follow? or is yer supposed common sense still stuck inside the basement and on the inside products you want to, NEED to sell...? huh lol

Any product you/others sell and want homeowners to apply on the inside of basement walls CANNOT take this Outside pressure off the dang wall(s). Ya gotta go outside to do this...grrrr. If you talk people into applying products on inside when their problem(s) are Outside then, you need to be held liable-accountable when their walls continue to bow, cracks widen,mold/efflorescence continues to grow on walls etc. If you truly are an expert then you would NOT have recommended a product(s) that cannot possibly solve their problems....got milk?

Lets see what OTHERS say/think about waterproofing Basement walls on the Outside and backfilling w/gravel-peastone, NOT damproofing.....i said Waterproofing.

can YOU read? then read 6th,7th para`s

http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp

do YOU fully Understand what they say?

http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH058_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

http://www.ottawastructural.com/treesfoundations.htm

http://radon.utoledo.edu/remedy_mech.html

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/physic.html#Character

http://fanninremodeling.com/floodbasement.pdf

i`ll post many more links from others, ya need em?

hollow block walls can deteriorate if YOU don`t stop water from entering outside cracks, take pressure off, is that what you are recommending to people?

and since many of us contractors who do exterior waterproofing have zero/no customer complaints over 25,30+ years, how do YOU figure your supposed #1 fact?

if its impossible to waterproof basements from the outside as you state then sure the shtt should mean we`d have been outta business a looong time ago/have hundreds of customer complaints etc.


SaniTred

12:12PM | 08/11/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
Sani-Tred:

It is impossible to 100% waterproof, moisture-proof and vapor-proof a basement from the exterior. Click on the link below, do you see anything to stop water, moisture, vapor or even problem radon from entering through the floor or the wall/floor junction (even with all the drains in the world)?

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/ExteriorCoating.gif

Once the walls, floor, joints, seams, cracks and holes have been simply sealed, there is absolutely no possibility for anything to enter. That means efflorescence, mold, radon etc…

Keep in mind I’m not talking about Drylok:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/cementiciousproducts.jpg

I’m talking about Sani-Tred products:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/PermaFlex.jpg

“Licensed Waterproofer” States:

This is what you say and correct me if i`m wrong, you do NOT do basement waterproofing-foundation work, right? You DO SELL Products that are applied on the Inside of basements, right?

Sani-Tred:

We provide the materials and APPLY them as well, though anyone can apply them whether it is the home owner, contractor, handy man or painter. Even you Licensed Waterproofer (that was a subliminal message).

“Licensed Waterproofer” States:

Quite a darn few basement walls BOW inward due to, lateral and hydrostatic SOIL Pressure that is against the outside of basement walls, tree roots can also cause cracks to WIDEN,bowing of walls so, ahem...knock knock, the ONLY way to take this Outside Pressure-roots off the walls is....from the Outside, lolol, geeeezuz!

This is accomplished by getting rid of the expanding-contracting SOIL, waterproofing the cracks/wall and, repklacing that Soil with gravel which provides the LEAST pressure against walls and provides FULL and IMMEDIATE Drainage along walls....ya follow? or is yer supposed common sense still stuck inside the basement and on the inside products you want to, NEED to sell...? huh lol

Sani-Tred:

Not every single basement on the planet suffers from all occurrences you mentioned. We DO NOT dismiss ALL natural forces that can exist. Put gravel out there if that is a serious concern. Like I said, most of our customers have already done exterior and/or interior drainage methods etc… and seek a permanent 100% method of eliminating ALL water, moisture, vapor, problem radon…..

Everyone knows what you do for a living, be proud of what you do. I just know that you can not guarantee that not a single molecule of water, moisture, vapor or problem radon can enter a basement. That is why I said I don’t think you quite understand how 2 different systems can compliment each other.

“Licensed Waterproofer” States:

Any product you/others sell and want homeowners to apply on the inside of basement walls CANNOT take this Outside pressure off the dang wall(s). Ya gotta go outside to do this...grrrr. If you talk people into applying products on inside when their problem(s) are Outside then, you need to be held liable-accountable when their walls continue to bow, cracks widen,mold/efflorescence continues to grow on walls etc. If you truly are an expert then you would NOT have recommended a product(s) that cannot possibly solve their problems

Sani-Tred:

You have to admit that every wall crack is not resulting water pressure. I have seen some pretty poorly built walls and slip-shod work. You have to admit that not all homes sit in that high of water. Even if a home was sitting in 4’ of water, at the wall/floor junction that’s 1.82 psi. and LESS every inch up the all.

Water Column Chart:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/WaterColumn.gif

That’s not enough pressure to collapse a properly constructed foundation built to CODE. I’m not talking about massive earth movement, massive tree roots, Loc Ness, or Big Foot. Some nuclear plants have 10 stories below grade and we’ve sealed them. By code, they must have a material that will pass the negative hydrostatic pressure tests which nothing has exceeded as much as Sani-Tred. We’ve sealed the interior of municipal manholes that were over 15’ deep without 1 instance of a drop of water. Regardless what you say, the products WORK. If a poorly built home was submerged in a swamp or in New Orleans during a flood, with massive earth movement, tree roots, Loc Ness and Big Foot I’d say water is the least of their worries, but even then Sani-Tred products would never bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate or leak.


LicensedWaterproofer

12:18AM | 08/12/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


poor thing, seems you just don`t know

Basements that have crack(s) in floor and get water up through cracks in floor often ONLY need to have an honest/experienced plumber snake the storm trap. I have a long list of homeowners who were almost BS`d into an Inside drain tile or baseboard system when, all they needed was to snake the storm trap to free a blockage Under the floor which caused water to accumulate and back UP through these crack `n other openings in floor. NOBODY else recommended this to these homeowners, instead they pushed their systems...$7,000-$17,000+ to some us honest contractors, this is absolutely criminal!

there are some homes/basements that will need a sump pump(s) to....control water-level Under bsmt floor. for instance, those who live in areas like New Orleans/below sea level. However, while they may need sumps to control potential problems under floor, IF and when they have cracks in basement wall/bowing wall/mold-efflorescence on wall due to water entering they will also need to waterproof these cracks correctly to stop water from entering/stop mold-efflorescence/lessen pressure against wall.

Hey.....did you or did you not read links from OTHERS? They aren`t MY links, i didnt write the shtt, other did....did you read em and take some time and THINK `n try and understand what others said?

Radon gas?

--Radon resistant features--

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/hmbyguid.html#4.b.

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/physic.html#Character

where can radon ENTER a house?

2nd para.. "Radon gas can enter a home from the SOIL Through cracks in concrete floor sand walls, floor drains, sump pumps, construction joints and TINY cracks or PORES in Hollow-Block Walls"

got that? its in the SOIL, OUTSIDE, Against basement wall. MOST basement walls were ONLY-at best Damproofed, NOT Waterproofed and NOT backfilled with peastone from footing all the way up.

Can you possibly see how Radon can enter a block wall through pores/cracks? Once its Inside the hollow block....its in. lolol It can travel inside the hollow blocks and get into the first floor this way regardless of putting/painting/applying anything on inside of basement walls.

I`ll give you this, that it won`t hurt to apply some products on inside of wall to help reduce the chance the gas from getting into basement but, its still getting INTO cavities/cells of hollow blocks through cracks/pores on the Outside and can certainly rise in the blocks and get into first floors of homes.

Block walls can have hairline to 1-2"+ Cracks on the Outside and show nothing/no cracks on Inside. Thats right, just because you do not see a crack(s) on inside does NOT mean there isn`t a crack on the outside.

Maybe you don`t understand this `cos you don`t do the job. those who don`t work on the outside won`t see/understand how walls crack, how water enters these cracks `n other openings and FIRST gets inside the basement wall. In order to stop/prevent water from first-entering, these cracks must be sealed/waterproofed, Outside. Gezzz, sealing them inside does NOT stop water from getting INTO the block Outside.

This is where radon can enter, insects can enter,water enters...do you understand?

And if water/moisture is allowed to enter, from Outside then it sure as heck will increase chance of Mold,efflorescence. YOU cannot stop this water/moisture from entering by applying products on inside of basement wall, its sooo easy to deduce.

Inside Drain Tile `n Baseboard Systems do NOT stop water/moisture from entering these openings, nor will they stop/prevent all the other shtt, including lateral & hydrostatic Soil pressure and roots that cause MANY walls to crack,leak,bow.

Nah, no thanks on myself applying anything on inside, thats YOUR bag.

Hey Mr. Sani....if what you claim is true, in any way/shape/form then, how is it myself and other outside contractors could possibly have 0 bbb costumer complaints in 25-30+ Years? go figure, if we weren`t stopping/preventing water from entering,mold-efflorescence etc there sure as shtt be a huge problem, many complaints and so on.

and hey, lolol, MANY of OUR customers have done/tried ALL the Inside BS, paint etc and, have also tried these bs MYTHS that many preach incl`g, raise `n slope grade, install french drains to divert water,extend downspouts,mudjacking slabs etc etc. They don`t work because they don`t solve/seal the cracks or other Openings in basement walls or Above basement walls where, water Enters.

Anyone who repeatedly recommends this crap, like HI`s, Hm Imp radio talk show hosts etc, need to back-up what they say/recommend, if they are so certain then back it up. Since when do HI`s, others become experts in basement waterproofing/foundations? They`ve never done 1 job, let alone had to guarantee it over long period of time. Time to hold these people liable/accountable.


LicensedWaterproofer

02:45AM | 08/12/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


http://www.stocorp.com/pr.nsf/5d5efb09f77373618525666a004bca57/d4f316cb97c674368525692d006d00ea?OpenDocument

scroll down to -Federal response-

the F P Lab project director..." I would say 90% of moisture problems in houses are related to moisture coming in from the outside"

some of us have known this for a long time

http://wrc.iewatershed.com/index.php?pagename=education_forest_04_page_2

...para 5 ... trees palnted in the wrong places can have adverse effects on things around them.As tree roots grow in size, they push soil and sidewalks out of the way.And in some situations, they can even push against basement walls setting the stage for water leakage...."

only way to get roots OFF the outside of basement walls is from, the outside lol even this guy at North Dakota State gets that!

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extnews/newsrelease/2006/030906/05hortis.htm

first question-answer

surely a supposed 'expert' in basement waterproofing/foundations will understand this, well, maybe not huh

http://www.riverwatchonline.org/news/winnipeg_press/07_09_05.html

do you understand expansive soils? hydrostatic pressure? what it does to basement walls?

http://www.al-home-inspections.com/news-articles/article-4.html

Read and learn, what you`ve posted are YOUR links, i`m supposed to believe you? Based on your supposed views/opinions?

Have you EVER done one/single waterproofing job from the Outside? Ya know, wall had a crack(s) and you dug it down to seal-waterproof the crack? lol

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fail-Foundation-A2095.html


SaniTred

11:32AM | 08/14/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
You haven’t disproved anything. Sani-Tred products work everywhere they are applied and that is all there is to it. In order to ‘disprove it’ you’re trying to find a flaw in a suit of armor. Sure in an existing home you can’t lift the home up and apply to that tiny portion on the top of the foundation wall. New construction of course one would seal that location, that’s part of being thorough.

You want to talk about susceptible areas? How about every basement floor in America that exterior methods CAN NOT seal? Exterior treatments are NOT a ‘dead stop’ to water, moisture, vapor and problem radon.

Exterior methods do not eliminate problem radon regardless of the method because they CAN NOT seal all surfaces. 100% of the surface must be sealed for 100% of the foundation to be sealed.

You can not disprove the Sani-Tred system. Sani-Tred products perform as stated. You MUST be specific, you must prove that Sani-Tred products WILL bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate, leak and allow problem radon to enter through it. Without that, you’re wearing out your keyboard for nothing and this is a dead subject.

Anyone that says that there is ONLY ONE solution for all problems is naïve, uninformed or just block headed.


LicensedWaterproofer

11:51AM | 08/14/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


whatever you believe man

hmm, lol....you must have missed the REAL facts `n answers i posted about FLOORS!

read it and weep some more.

hey, i`ve proved for 25++ YEARS what 'works'.

and IF your talking about the cold joint/isoaltion joint/cove then, MOST basements-walls where water comes ONTO the Floor at the cold joint, IS indeed due to the same crack(s) & other Outside openings that allow water to enter into `n through the wall to begin with, but, you wouldn`t understand this since you`ve Never done one single dang exterior job. you go ahead and keep pushing your products, just know that when you try `n DECEIVE the public with certain claims in advertising/articles, some of us are watching.

amazing how someone with NO real experience, NO hands on knowledge could possibly have all the right answers/inside products.


SaniTred

12:12PM | 08/14/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
NO, you did not post anything that says that exterior or even interior drains eliminate the possibility of ‘moisture vapor drive’ through all floors.

I am not referring to walls or a wall/floor joint at all. Floors and only floors. Poured concrete by nature is porous. Exterior and interior drains can not dry up the soil and desiccate the earth beneath or surrounding any structure.

That is what I have been talking about since day 1. No, you did not post anything that says that drains eliminate this possibility.

LicensedWaterproofer

01:37PM | 08/14/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


most basements do NOT have a dang problem with water/moisture coming up through/wetting floor. i have a moisture-vapor-drive for you lolol things are that bad for you huh, to bring up a condition that most don`t have a problem with...got milk?

Not all, Most!

for those who do, some of those problems are due to-- a thin basement floor, yeah, a 2" or so thickness and, some of those have cracks in the floor.

and then, some who get dampness/water coming up through the floor have a....blockage Under the floor which can often, not always, be freed by snaking through storm trap. would YOU like to call many homeowners who`ve had this and were almost talked into an inside drain tile system when they ONLY needed an honest/exp plumber to snake...huh?

would you rather talk to couple of plumbers i recomend who`ve freed these occurances? huh? cost them about $125-200

NO problems since, zero/nada, interesting eh?

you seem to NOT-MUCH, want to delve into the problems most have, why basements leak, have mold/efflorescence, why walls crack and bow in. This means nothing to you huh

are YOU saying, in your expert opinion that, most basement leaks, mold/efflorescence etc is NOT due to basement wall cracks/openings/problems? NOT due to lateral `n hydrostatic Soil pressure or tree roots? are you saying that most basements have problems under the floor?


SaniTred

07:21AM | 08/15/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
“LicensedWaterproofer” States:

“are YOU saying, in your expert opinion that, most basement leaks, mold/efflorescence etc is NOT due to basement wall cracks/openings/problems? NOT due to lateral `n hydrostatic Soil pressure or tree roots? are you saying that most basements have problems under the floor?”

No I was replying to your insinuation that drains under the floor or surrounding the home will act as a ‘dead stop’ to moisture. Drains don’t do that; you of all people should know. Drains do not dry up the earth and act as a ‘vapor barrier’. Knowing this you should simply admit that and not ‘mislead’. Then again, if you do honestly believe that, then just say “Drains will permanently stop 100% of all water, moisture and vapor from entering through all floors in any fashion”. That is called a ‘claim’. You have not done so because that would be a lie.

“LicensedWaterproofer” States:

“most basements do NOT have a dang problem with water/moisture coming up through/wetting floor.”

Not true, but by the same token most basements do NOT have a dang problem with tree roots and soil pressure. It is a fact that drains do not dry the earth to eliminate moisture. Moisture is ALWAYS present and drains are not a ‘dead stop’ to moisture. Moisture vapor drive exists which is why exterior methods can not positively waterproof every home on the planet because the floors are left susceptible at the very least.

Efflorescence is sign that moisture has already permeated THROUGH the wall or floor and evaporated leaving behind a white crystal/powdery deposits. Sani-Tred stops efflorescence permanently because it stops all water, moisture, vapor which CAUSES mold, mildew etc…

Mold only grows if it can. A foundation that has been positively waterproofed can not grow mold.

http://www.moldtips.com/whatis_grow.htm

Moisture permeates through pored concrete, block, brick, stone/mortar etc… Though it may appear dry to the naked eye, moisture vapor drive is slow and continuous. Floors ‘slab on grade’ suffer from ‘moisture vapor drive’ which is why sheet vapor barriers are common but not always effective. Sheet vapor barriers are typically not 1 solid sheet, by code one may use multiple sheets, but should overlap 6” which is done much if not most of the time. Such vapor barriers are ineffective below grade for this reason.

DIY moisture vapor drive test:

To check a light-colored concrete slab for moisture, place a flat, non-corrugated rubber mat on the slab. Weight it to seal it against the surface. Look under the mat after a few days. If the covered area shows dark, wet marks, there is much moisture vapor transmission through the slab. For other concrete floors/walls, tape a 15-inch square of clear polyethylene film to the slab with moisture-resistant tape, sealing all four edges. If after a few days one sees condensation/moisture, there is much moisture vapor transmission through the slab.

When a basement is finished on the interior, moisture vapor becomes even more so ‘an accumulative problem’. Moisture/vapor becomes trapped under and behind the finishing materials, harvests mold and traps radon. Over time the problems worsen as more moisture, vapor, mold and radon accumulate. Sani-Tred products act a permanently adhered topical and deep penetrating vapor barrier which can be applied to 100% of all surfaces inside the basement and will remain permanently flexible.

WARNING ~ COMMON SENCE ALLERT:

Sani-Tred products DO NOT magically repel tree roots on the exterior of the foundation.

Sani-Tred products DO NOT stop the earth from moving.

Sani-Tred products DO NOT act as an approved insecticide (call an exterminator)

Sani-Tred products WILL never allow water, moisture, vapor or problem radon to enter wherever they are applied and never bubble, chip, peel, crack or delaminate.


LicensedWaterproofer

03:28PM | 08/15/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


look wise guy, see, you just can`t put it ALL together, can ya? lolol

what is it you don`t get? Oh, thats right, you`ve NEVER actually done Basement Waterproofing have you! haha

THATS the Problem!

NO shtt on the drains, thats right, drain tiles inside or outside will NOT/cannot eliminate all water-moisture that IS under basement floors and on the Outside-along-against basement walls, no shtt man.

This is why one needs to fine and correctly seal/waterproof ALL cracks and Other openings, this is how/where Most water enters basements.

Like i`ve already said, those folks who have water that can accumulate under floor and then rise UP through any OPENING/Crack in floor should FIRST, determine if there is a blockage UNDER the floor by, having an honest-Exp Plumber snake Under the floor, through storm trap etc, this is what i said. geezzzz

OFTEN.....homeowners are BS`d into Inside drain tile `n baseboard systems & sumps when, snaking often frees these blockages. I said, if YOU can`t understand that or believe that then, why don`t YOU simply call Many homeowners and a couple Plumbers who know what it is i`m talking about, are ya scared to FIND the truth?

Hey ya big dummy, haha, hey, are you saying I am lieing? Huh? Are you also saying the Yoder Group, Bob Vila, Tim Carter aka Ask the Builder and Other links/articles are BS? they lieing too?

Did YOU fully-read and Understand the MOLD Links i`ve posted?

After 28 years i can honestly say alot of what you post/have on YOUR website is BSSSHTT-Misleading-False. hey, if YOU think you can disprove me in a COURT then do so!

i`m waiting and would GREATLY enjoy that!

In fact, lolol, i`ll take Any challenge from Any Inside Co/and their Systems that...mislead/falsify claims/advertisements for....self-interest. So, gather up your Inside buddys and lets get the ball rollin`.

You should NOT mislead/post False claims in any advertisement to, mislead the public to sell your products/services etc.

You appear to be LACKING Common Sense when it comes to basement waterproofing/foundation work.

I hope anyone reading this saw this persons LAST few LINES......

Sanitred will NOT, as they say,allow water,moisture,radon etc where.....APPLIED!

got that?

Lets say you have a hollow-block basement walls.....hey, cracks and openings on the OUTSIDE of a block wall WILL allow water,moisture,radon gas,insects and conditions for mold to grow....thats right. THIS is where water/moisture etc....FIRST ENTER a block wall, but ya see what Sanitred wrote,They don`t-won`t Guarantee that YOU-The homeowner the OUTSIDE Entry Points/Cracks.

Idiots, there are MANY in this business

http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp

.......read 6th paragraph in Yoder link

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fail-Foundation-A2095.html

http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH058_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

http://www.askthebuilder.com/015_Exterior_Foundation_Wall_Waterproofing.shtml

use hydraulic cement on large cracks on, The OUTSIDE, NOT inside

http://www.al-home-inspections.com/news-articles/article-4.html

http://www.fanninremodeling.com/floodbasement.pdf

scroll to...why worry about water in the basement....and...Possible Causes

MOLD?

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/images/moldguide.pdf

read it and weep Sanitred

http://www.abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131638%page=1

"find the moisture, eliminate the moisture, clean up the mold"

"locate and fix leaks imeediately"

"Cleaning up the Mold is Not enough.You Must find the water source and ELIMINATE it"

Your products don`t eliminate water/moisture that enters throygh cracks and other Outside openings which create ideal wet/damp conditions for Mold.


SaniTred

09:55AM | 08/16/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
So now you’re saying that every home needs an interior (under the floor) drain, exterior drainage AND a material applied to the interior (cracks/joints)? What about all surfaces left unsealed and still susceptible to moisture vapor drive? I know that this is your answer to:

“those folks who have water that can accumulate under floor and then rise UP through any OPENING/Crack in floor should FIRST, determine if there is a blockage UNDER the floor by, having an honest-Exp Plumber snake Under the floor, through storm trap etc”

You’re assuming that every home has drains under the floor and that everyone wants them.

You said it yourself “thats right, drain tiles inside or outside will NOT/cannot eliminate all water-moisture that IS under basement floors and on the Outside-along-against basement walls”.

You have only proved that all floors are still left susceptible with or without drains (interior and/or exterior). Drains can’t stop vapor drive. You can not rule out moisture because even garage floors – slab on grade suffer from moisture vapor drive which delaminates other coatings even more so below grade or is this a lie?

Now you’re being ridiculous and still haven’t proven anything. You must have way too much time on your hands to think that the top of a block wall is a CRITICAL and SERVERE problem in every home on the planet. This location is typically above grade and you’re trying to think way too hard. You’re forgetting about deathly high radon levels 155.3 which Sani-Tred has reduced to 0.2 which are way below safe levels. This specific example – the customer left an open pit! He didn’t have to, but he did. Just another Sani-Tred success story. There is not one example of a home which their radon problem hasn’t been brought to below safe levels. You’re still reaching. Sani-Tred products work regardless of your opinions and desperate attempts. You’re still beating a brick wall there …

Ever heard of ‘closed cell foam’? This for instance could easily be easily squirted into the block if desired. This is flotation foam which is impervious to water and grows many many times its size. A little bit goes a long way. It’s not concrete, but hollow block walls never were the best building material, wouldn’t you agree?

This being your ONLY instance as a ‘weak link’ proves to be a weak and desperate one considering your best efforts still leave your customers with the majority of the square footage susceptible - the floor. You can’t say that not a single molecule of water, moisture, vapor or even problem radon can’t enter after you’re gone.

You’re stuck on hollow block walls and that proves you’re on thin ice and running out of circumstances.

Bugs? Come on… People call us for a positive waterproofing solution and you continue to talk about bugs. Honestly, not one single customer in over 20 years ever asked us about bug-proofing, but 100% of them expressed their earnest desire to eliminate all water, moisture and or problem radon. You make it sound like we say “a new paint job on your car will stop engine failure”.


LicensedWaterproofer

12:44PM | 08/16/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


look,thats it for providing you with attention. I`m freakin` tired from....WORKING! something you don`t know crap about! Yeah, its called doing the job, hands on, for decades and I am TIRED of weak minded,self interest NUT cases who have NO experience on this subject, they THINK they do but they do NOT! Hey, come up here to MI and spend a day or 2 with me `n my guys, i`ll PAY!!!!!!! C`mon, LEARN something....hands on for ONCE!

look man, if you can disprove what i`ve THOROUGHLY explained AND back then, take my azz to court and prove me wrong,go right ahead, ive been waiting a looong time.

listen, you and your SELF-interestadvertising-claims are in my 28+ years honest opinion, VERY misleading/untrue etc and you do this shtt in an effort to SELL your inside products.

i`m NOT assuming shtt ya nimrod. My opinions and EXPERTISE comes from....ahem, Hands on knowledge, yeah, doing the freakin` job for nearly 3 DECADES.

you have never done an exterior waterproofing job which, if what MOST people need, you are NOT an expert in basement waterproofing/foundations and have several BBB sutomer complaints in last 36 months, maybe more....huh. lolol, shtt, you go ahead and keep spewing your self-interest crap, you have as much right as i and others, problem is, you often LIE!

Have a wonderful,misleading day


SaniTred

01:14PM | 08/16/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
As expected, you have yet to prove that Sani-Tred products do not perform precisely as advertised or not waterproof as advertised. You can’t disprove it, every square foot of the that is coated will be 100% sealed. That is its purpose. Of course unless you can prove that Sani-Tred products bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate . . .

Nor have you given 1 single reason how drains can stop moisture vapor drive. You can't. Snaking out drains doesn't dry up the earth.

LicensedWaterproofer

01:55PM | 08/16/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


lolol, what a buncha crap. you must LOVE bs`ing the public, its all about the money for you, isnt it? huh?

why dont YOU speak about the OTHER LINKS i posted, i didnt write the stuff, Others did. are they full of crap?

go ahead, speak DIRECTLY to the other links, what Tim Carter says if one wants a DRY basement, what does he say?

what do OTHERS say/expalin about lateral & hydrostatic SOIL pressure and tree roots, huh?

here, ill make it EASY....does lateral `n hydrostatic soil pressure and/or tree roots cause basements wall(s) to CRACK, LEAK, BOW...etc? ...yes or no

do MOST basements LEAK/SEEP due to...cracks and other openings in basement walls and, ABOVE ground openings? ...yes or no

if one does NOT stop/prevent water-moisture from entering a basement wall, does it greatly Increase the chance for MOLD to grow? yes or no

shtt, look, DO YOUR inside PRODUCTS Stop/prevent water/moisture from ENTERING the OUTSIDE of Basement Walls? yes or no

how about radon gas, insects....will applying YOUR Inside products stop/prevent radon `n insects that do INDEED ENTER cracks and other openings on the outside of house? yes or no

if a homeowner uses YOUR products, can they in ANY way lessen/relieve lateral or hydrostatic SOIL pressure & tree roots which,cause MANY basement walls to crack, leak, bow? .... yes or no


SaniTred

01:23PM | 08/18/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
Do drains, sump pits, pumps, battery backups, dehumidifiers, gutters, downspouts or landscaping dry the earth underneath or surrounding any home in order to stop moisture vapor drive throughout any portion of a below grade foundation floor?

Statistic - Many studies have been performed throughout decades and surprisingly result in approx 2-3 liters of moisture permeates through walls and floors per day in the average size home due to moisture vapor drive. Depending on the time of year and water table. Look it up.

do MOST basements LEAK/SEEP due to...cracks and other openings in basement walls

- YES of course. Sani-Tred products can be applied to seal any joint, seam, crack, hole, patch rough areas and all surfaces.

and, ABOVE ground openings?

- YES, above ground openings can be sealed as well. You’re a tricky misleading one, so be specific.

if one does NOT stop/prevent water-moisture from entering a basement wall, does it greatly Increase the chance for MOLD to grow?

- NO considering most all (basement waterproofing related) mold problems occur on the interior of basements due to water/moisture permeating THROUGH walls, floors, joints, seams, cracks and holes which raise the basement’s humidity and causes mold to grow.

- There are many other sources resulting in high humidity that are not related to basement waterproofing (leaky plumbing, sump pits, aquariums, house plants, improperly installed dryer vents, etc…). You wouldn’t claim that exterior drains and gravel solves these would you?

- If anyone wanted to coat the exterior, it’s a free country. Do you think that not one single customer chose to apply Sani-Tred products to the exterior? Don’t think that it hasn’t been done before, but in good conscience we MUST inform them that by coating the exterior even with interior drains, exterior drains, gravel, dehumidifiers …. they will not be able to stop moisture vapor drive throughout any portion of the floor.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/ExteriorCoating.gif

DO YOUR inside PRODUCTS Stop/prevent water/moisture from ENTERING the OUTSIDE of Basement Walls?

- YES if one chooses to apply Sani-Tred products to the exterior. The point is that exterior coatings DO NOT STOP water from entering anywhere else other than the exterior of the wall which CAN NOT guarantee that the entire basement will be sealed. Exterior treatments leave all floors susceptible to moisture vapor drive and radon. Sani-Tred products waterproof multi-million gallon tanks above or below grade. Sani-Tred products have been applied to the interior of municipal manholes, some over 15’ below grade. Used in nuclear plants up to 10 stories below grade! Try as you might, it can not be refuted.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/ExteriorCoating.gif

how about radon gas, insects....will applying YOUR Inside products stop/prevent radon `n insects that do INDEED ENTER cracks and other openings on the outside of house?

- YES if one chooses to apply Sani-Tred products to the exterior. The point is that exterior coatings DO NOT STOP water or radon from entering anywhere else other than the exterior of the wall which CAN NOT guarantee that the entire basement will be sealed. Exterior treatments leave all floors susceptible to moisture vapor drive and radon.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/ExteriorCoating.gif

- In over 2 decades not one single person has ever reported that termites or any other insect has eaten or burrowed through Sani-Tred products. There are hundreds of thousands of sq’ of wood surfaces alone that are permanently sealed using Sani-Tred products. Thanks to ‘LicensedWaterproofer’ I think we’ll have our products tested for the most tenacious species of insects. Perhaps a special formulation if necessary. Of course it goes without saying that the home may be ‘bug-proofed’ from the exterior, but not 100% waterproof ... Thank you ‘LicensedWaterproofer’ for inspiring us to offer yet another solution to a bug – I mean BIG problem.

- You forget that Sani-Tred products are used for ANY waterproofing needs and are rated for even vehicle traffic.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/RoofDeck.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/DomeHome.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/SwimmingPool.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/Wood-WaterTank.jpg

- Sorry but nothing stops radon from entering “on the outside of house”. You can get a radon reading in Wal-Mart parking lot. Radon can also enter through tap water. Everyone’s concern is to keep radon below safe levels and the most effective method is by not letting it in. That’s why Sani-Tred products can be used to shield out problem radon throughout 100% of the basement.

does lateral `n hydrostatic soil pressure and/or tree roots cause basements wall(s) to CRACK, LEAK, BOW...etc? if a homeowner uses YOUR products, can they in ANY way lessen/relieve lateral or hydrostatic SOIL pressure & tree roots which,cause MANY basement walls to crack, leak, bow?

- Are you insinuating that we claim to stop the earth from moving or repel roots in any fashion? Grow up…we’ve been over this many times.

You sought out do disprove Sani-Tred’s claims and performance. You can’t. We claim how the products perform and the products perform as we claim. Sani-Tred products will never bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate or leak for the life of the structure. Sani-Tred products will never allow water, moisture, vapor or problem radon to enter. You call that misleading? For once a product performs as stated! Nope, not brittle like an egg shell. Sani-Tred products are not cementicious. Sani-Tred products are not paint. Sani-Tred products permanently adhere, deep penetrating, tough as a truck tire, 600% elongation and absolutely permanent.


LicensedWaterproofer

02:41AM | 08/19/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


Oh....NOW You say, "IF" Sanitred products are applied on the.......OUTSIDE-EXTERIOR, of the basement wall.

NOT INSIDE!!!

Well guess what....the products we/others have been using on the Outside/Exterior work just fine, matter of Fact, its been Over 25 years, No bbb customer complaints,EVER, unlike others,especially Inside Co`s who have 10,20,40,50++ bbb complaints just in the last 36 Months.

YOU grow up fool, lol. YOUR CLAIM(s)#4 talks about....Sanitreds ability to hold back hydrostatic pressure, Hahaha!

THE Pressure against a wall is, the Soil and, when the soil becomes saturated with WATER.....so, applying your products will NOT relieve/lessen/prevent this Outside soil pressure or tree roots. Geez, gotta get rid off the SOIL and/or Roots, hello?

MOLD--- YOU answered NO to, "If one does not stop/prevent water-moisture from entering a basement wall, does it greatly increase the chance for Mold to grow?

NO huh? lol Mold can and does grow on Basement walls and if OFTEN there due to water-moisture entering the basement wall through cracks `n other openings on the outside.

You have to stop/prevent/eliminate this water-moisture from Entering to stop/eliminate Mold from growing on walls, and many have drywall/paneling up and have no idea whats growing behind em. What shape the basement walls are in.

Wrong answer Mr Sanit. Sheesh, did you bother to Read and Understand the Mold-Articles posted? They all say one must Stop/Prevent/Elimiante the water/moisture to stop/eliminate Mold.

Anyone with humidity problem does Not need to apply your products of others on inside to help with humidity for pete sake.

and i`ve layed out the problem(s) that some have Under the Floor, what is it you do Not get?

Are YOU saying that any homeowner who has/most likely has a BLOCKAGE Under the floor should apply your products to floor instead of....trying to free the blockage by snaking through storm trap etc? Huh?

And for those who live in areas below sea-level like New Orleans etc, and with heavy/long rains may get water/moisture coming up through floor cracks/other openings in floor, are YOU saying they should apply your products Instead of, installing a sump pump(s)?

disprove Claims? i already DID! lololol

YOU and others who advertise need to clarify and SUBSTANTIATE such claims, YOU and others should be Much more clear about what your products can and can`t do.


SaniTred

05:21AM | 08/21/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
‘LicensedWaterproofer’ States:

“Oh....NOW You say, "IF" Sanitred products are applied on the.......OUTSIDE-EXTERIOR”

- Yes, if. One can apply anything on the exterior if they WANT to. Exterior coatings even with drains does not make the rest of the foundation waterproof. Does it?

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/ExteriorCoating.gif

‘LicensedWaterproofer’ States:

“YOUR CLAIM(s)#4 talks about....Sanitreds ability to hold back hydrostatic pressure, Hahaha!”

- What about it? Yes, ‘negative hydrostatic pressure’. In order for any product to remain permanently adhered in any circumstance it must withstand more negative hydrostatic pressure than can possibly occur. It must be able to permanently withstand moisture vapor drive. Unless you have specific proof that Sani-Tred products DO NOT do so … then you have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Do you?

- You are absolutely wrong. Every home does not ‘suffer’ from soil pressure, bowing in walls etc… As a matter of fact, not everyone has trees. Not everyone has termites. Most foundations do not have walls bowing in. You are wrong and most all home owners would agree.

‘LicensedWaterproofer’ States:

"If one does not stop/prevent water-moisture from entering a basement wall, does it greatly increase the chance for Mold to grow?” You have to stop/prevent/eliminate this water-moisture from Entering to stop/eliminate Mold from growing on walls.

- Like I said, if a basement doesn’t see water, moisture or vapor drive because it is 100% sealed; no mold can grow. This obviously excludes other sources of moisture that are not basement waterproofing related. How can you misunderstand or misinterpret that?

- Are you actually saying that mold can grow between the substrate and Sani-Tred products which have a deep penetrated and permanent adherence with the substrate? Is that what you are trying to say?

‘LicensedWaterproofer’ States:

“Mold can and does grow on Basement walls and if OFTEN there due to water-moisture entering the basement wall through cracks `n other openings on the outside.”

- You forget Sani-Tred seals basements entirely. No water/moisture … no mold. It’s that simple. That is common sense.

- You can’t seal ALL basement surfaces from the exterior.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/ExteriorCoating.gif

- Don’t forget, also moisture vapor drive due to the presence of moisture or negative hydrostatic pressure (if present).

- Don’t forget about FLOORS. Floors are a major source for water and/or moisture. Oh yeah, you don’t want to talk about floors. Regardless it a major source which you never admit.

‘LicensedWaterproofer’ States:

“Anyone with humidity problem does Not need to apply your products of others on inside to help with humidity for pete sake.”

- Are you saying that humidity is OK and no one needs to stop it from coming in? Honestly, I’ve never heard such nonsense aside from your statement that snaking out drains will stop moisture from permeating through floors. Drains do not stop moisture.

- Do you actually tell your customers that dehumidifiers will stop moisture from coming through their walls and floors or in any way ‘solve the problem’?

- Do you actually believe that such an expensive prospect as installing drains under the floor, a sump pit, sump pump and all the bells & whistles will actually STOP moisture vapor drive? You actually tell people that? On top of that they MUST install exterior drains for all the reasons that most likely will not occur.

‘LicensedWaterproofer’ States:

“many have drywall/paneling up and have no idea whats growing behind em.”

- BINGO!!! You hit the nail right on the head! Can you think of any better reason to WATERPROOF a basement? Simply to eliminate the possibility of unnecessary things like that from EVER happening or happen AGAIN. Most people understand this basic concept and do what is necessary in order to protect the most valuable material investment/asset the foundation of their home.

‘LicensedWaterproofer’ States:

“and i`ve layed out the problem(s) that some have Under the Floor”

- Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you ONLY say that one should have their drains “under the floor” snaked out?

- Not everyone has drains under their floor and even if they did, drains (external or interior) do not stop moisture vapor drive which is a major source for water/moisture. If you don’t know this, don’t believe me, look it up or you are seriously misrepresenting yourself as a ‘waterproofer’.

‘LicensedWaterproofer’ States:

Are YOU saying that any homeowner who has/most likely has a BLOCKAGE Under the floor should apply your products to floor instead of....trying to free the blockage by snaking through storm trap etc? Huh?

- Sure, snake out the drains then do yourself a favor and do a ‘moisture vapor test’ and prove to yourself the limitations of the drain. Do you honestly believe that snaking out the drains will in some way STOP moisture vapor drive?

- Homeowners should be informed that DRAINS DO NOT ‘waterproof’ and merely attempt to reduce standing water. You know it and I know it, however it is obvious that only your pride keeps you from admitting this even though it is a natural certainty.

- We see this every day that is why Sani-Tred products are used. It’s very unfortunate we have to solve the problem typically AFTER the home owner has already shelled out for the drains. They hear your similar jargon and shell out for it. After it doesn’t perform as they believed it should at a fraction of the cost Sani-Tred perfectly seals all surfaces with the added bonus of never having a radon problem.

Do drains whether exterior and/or under the floor eliminate the possibility of 100% of all water, moisture and vapor drive (this question excludes the possibility of drain clog in every way and assumes that the said drains always remain functioning)? This is not a trick question.


LicensedWaterproofer

08:44AM | 08/21/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


what a complete fool...

your dumb but staes "One can apply anything on the exterior if they want to.Exterior coatings even with drains does not make the rest of the foundation waterproof,does it?" D U H!

MOST Basements leak/seep due to/because of cracks & other openings in basement walls & above basement walls,period. 90% of peoples problems are due to OUTSIDE carcks `n other dang openings that allow water/moisture,radon gas,insects etc to....ENTER the basement/the house fool.

To stop/prevent mold `n efflorescence on basement walls that is due to water/moisture that is entering through the walls one must eliminate the water/moisture, hello? This is done by sealing/waterproofing the cracks and, backfilling w/ peastone LESSENS/RELIEVES lateral `n hydrostatic soil pressure AND roots from trees that can grow along-against walls. Tuckpointing,caulking any other openings in mortar joints,around doors,windows,flashings etc is part of the equation in....stopping water from entering a house....duh.

Ya see Mr Sani, MOST Basement Walls are ONLY--At Best, Damproofed on the outside or parged, they are NOT Waterproofed! Since they are Only damproofed when soil COMPACTS after house is built it applies PRESSURE against basements walls, Can cause cracks in the walls and again, the walls were ONLY damproofed, thats why they freakin` LEAK.

Other times when builder,equipment operator backfills the SAME soil excavated from site Against the walls, it causes PRESSURE against walls and can cause cracks. Most do NOT backfill w/Most-ALL peastone...peastone provides the LEAST pressure on the outside of walls AND allows immediate drainage along entire depth of wall, you don`t understand this cause you`ve never done the work, or mAYBE YA DID ONE-TWO JOBS and couldn`t handle that kind of difficult-labor, ya wimped out huh?

Over & over and YOU don`t get it, understand basement waterproofing do you? NO!! lol

screw yer self interst photo bucket, how ya like that. You CANNOT play mind games with a real PRO, got milk? Not here, not in Any Court at anytime,sorry `Tred-head.

Hydrostatic soil pressure applies TONS of force per sq foot agianst basement walls so, YOU PROVE to the public just how it supposedly is that by applying your products on Inside of basement wall will stop That kinda FORCE that is Outside, go ahead.

MANY more homes than YOU 'think-assume' have cracks in basement walls caused from Outside soil pressure or tree roots and DUH, one has to go Outside to help lessen/relieve it, NOT Inside by applying some bs product on wall. COMMON SENSE!

Most homeowners would agree with YOU? hahahhaahhaahaaaaaaaaahahahahahhahhhah, ok tough guy, if You say so, must be true.

You do NOT read what i`ve stated, you MUST re-word what i have said to TRY and make your goofball self-interest points

Hey, why don`t we go to COURT, where you can try and prove-substantiate every CLAIM you try `n make here and in your advertising...lets go lets go lets go!

your CLAIMS really stink, to try and bs people for self-gain is imo, criminal! You should state whats true and what homeowners need, ALL the Facts, re-word your advertising shtt or be held liable, how ya like that? tell me plz......court,court,court......


SaniTred

12:27PM | 08/21/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
You should not be so confident about things you obviously know nothing about. It destroys any shred of credibility you may have possessed.

I’ve been trying to get you to OPENLY ANSWER 1 single solitary question and you have still not directly answered it to anyone’s satisfaction.

??????? Do ANY exterior wall coatings plus drain or drains whether exterior and/or under the floor eliminate the possibility of 100% of all water, moisture and vapor drive (this question excludes the possibility of drain clog in every way and assumes that the said drains always remain functioning)? This is not a trick question.

LicensedWaterproofer States:

“MOST Basements leak/seep due to/because of cracks & other openings in basement walls & ABOVE basement walls,period.”

- You’re saying 90% of basements leak from ‘above grade’ and exterior cracks. You’re funny! I hope you’re joking. I’d love to be there when you’re standing inside of someone’s wet basement while you say “Your basements leaks/seeps due to/because of cracks & other openings in basement walls & above basement walls,period”. You actually tell people that?

- Most, if not all basement leaks are located where the wall meets the floor and/or other joints, seams, cracks and holes. General dampness occurs usually surrounding the above mentioned locations or just anywhere throughout the walls or floor due to moisture vapor drive or negative hydrostatic pressure.

- Sure YOU may be able to reduce standing water from around a home, but this can not waterproof 100% of any basement.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/sanitred/ExteriorCoatingWithExteriorDrain.gif

LicensedWaterproofer States:

“To stop/prevent mold `n efflorescence on basement walls that is due to water/moisture that is entering through the walls ….. This is done by sealing/waterproofing the cracks and, backfilling w/ peastone … Tuckpointing,caulking any other openings in mortar joints,around doors,windows,flashings etc is part of the equation in....stopping water from entering a house”

- That ONLY seals the walls and WILL NOT guarantee that any other portion of any foundation is waterproof. That is unless you want to MISLEAD by using word trickery … “Ma’am your basement is now ‘waterproof’”… but you didn’t say moisture-proof and vapor-proof.

- This is exactly the type of misleading JARGON I keep referring to. Do you even know what efflorescence is?

- Efflorescence is mineral deposits left behind AFTER water/moisture has already passed completely through the wall or floor and dries.

- Sani-Tred products seal 100% of the substrate. Walls, floors, joints, seams, cracks, and holes. No water, moisture, vapor or problem radon = no water, moisture, vapor, EFFLORESCENCE, mold, mildew, or problem radon. This is WATERPROOFING by the true definition of the word. This can not be misinterpreted in any way.

- Are you trying to say that mold can grow and efflorescence will appear beneath Sani-Tred products which have a deep penetrated permanent adherence to the substrate and perfectly waterproof?

- Are you trying to say that mold can somehow occur due to leakage even though there is no possibility of leakage once all surfaces are sealed?

- What are you trying to say? You’re not one of those drain guys that try to tell people that water/moisture dissolves concrete are you?

LicensedWaterproofer States:

MOST Basement Walls are ONLY--At Best, Damproofed on the outside or parged, they are NOT Waterproofed!

- Of course! BINGO. Hense the purpose of WATERPROOFING. You can not seal 100% of any foundation from the exterior. This is where YOU are misleading. We on the other hand do not mislead in the slightest.

I can tell that you like to say that our “claims” have no validity, but you still haven’t even come close to disproving ANY of them. Not one. Instead you make countless silly statements like:

* your CLAIMS really stink

* why don`t we go to COURT

* ......court,court,court......

Are you capable of trying, at the very least, to make yourself sound like a professional? Throughout many many pages of your JARGON will you please focus and at least TRY TO PROVE SOMETHING? Your silly statements are ridiculous, unintelligent, and immaterial. They are of no use to anyone and what should be most important, they do not add to your credibility.

You keep beating around the bush with ridiculous statements regarding our system without a SHRED of anything that could be considered proof; meanwhile I have had your system perfectly pegged from the beginning. I know that this is the reason for your agitation and your contempt.


LicensedWaterproofer

12:52PM | 08/21/06
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts


last reply from here, if people want to buy your products then so be it.

i am extremely confident due to decades of hands on experience, seeing how `n where water,radon etc enters. Right up close views of cracks in basement walls, bowing basement walls, yeah,i can stick my hand in many of these cracks and your gonna sit there and tell me otherwise? haha!

YOUR advertising is misleading and imo you could give less than 2 shtts who you mislead. turn out the lights the party`s over.

SaniTred

01:01PM | 08/21/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
I KNEW IT! You don't want to answer the one and only direct question I have for you.

That's because the answer is NO isn't it?

You can not and will not say that all the drains in the world - with exterior coatings - with under the floor drains will waterproof 100% of ANY foundation.

How misleading is that?


apoc30

12:37PM | 10/02/06
Member Since: 10/01/06
1 lifetime posts
I have a question I am very confused on, does www.sanitred.com actually manufacturer their products or do they buy from a dealer? I am confused on if the product is named sanitred or or not.

thanks

combs1

08:55AM | 10/05/06
Member Since: 10/04/06
1 lifetime posts
I have used the sani-tred product with success. I have a 4ft high poured concrete basement that was taking in water during heavy rains when the soil was already saturated at the footing. I used a diamond grinder to prep the walls, and applied the permaflex, then the rubber middle, and another permaflex. This was 2 years ago, and I haven't had anymore more water in my basement.

I can't claim it works for everything and every instance. However it worked very well for me.

I do have a question for Sanitred. I am getting ready to finish my basement, and am looking for a simple floor. I am looking at prepping the floor for adhesion and then putting on 2 coats of permaflex. My question is however, can I paint over the sanitred coating? Will other paints adhere to it. I don't want the gray or tan color.

Thanks

CCombs

mvwood

04:23PM | 10/31/06
Member Since: 10/30/06
3 lifetime posts
BasementWaterproofer, I have been reading through this thread with interest and was hoping for some advice, and from the Sani rep guy as well.

Particularly, you wrote:

"most basements do NOT have a dang problem with water/moisture coming up through/wetting floor. i have a moisture-vapor-drive for you lolol things are that bad for you huh, to bring up a condition that most don`t have a problem with...got milk?

Not all, Most!

for those who do, some of those problems are due to-- a thin basement floor, yeah, a 2" or so thickness and, some of those have cracks in the floor.

and then, some who get dampness/water coming up through the floor have a....blockage Under the floor which can often, not always, be freed by snaking through storm trap. would YOU like to call many homeowners who`ve had this and were almost talked into an inside drain tile system when they ONLY needed an honest/exp plumber to snake...huh?"

I just moved into a resale home where the owner painted over the floors before I saw the place and had previously done work to dig out and waterproof one external wall. Inspector noted leakage and repairs.

Now, a few months after move in, there are areas of leakage in the floors (one area the floor gets kind of pasty, while in others, a foot or two from the exterior wall, there is dampness under the paint/in places where the paint has flaked off.

There is no leakage that I have seen on any of the walls or any joints.

As you noted, most people don't seem to have this problem, and all my Internet searching has confirmed this is something of a rarity.

The house is older - was built in the 30s, and so has no drainage system that I know of at all - no gravel under the home, no sump, no weeping tiles. No idea what the backfil is, but would assume it's just dirt.

I did have someone come and give me a recommendation and estimate (from basementsystems or Clarke Basement, I think), and he suggested an internal drainage system and a wall barrier which would move the water that gets through the walls down to the internal drainage system, all of which going to a sump in one corner of the basement. Quote was $13,000.

This sani thing is superficially appealing for me given the problem and recommendation (which would still, I would think, create moisture and mould risk), but considering I don't really know anything about any of this, I am apprehensive, of course.

What you say about hydrostatic pressure and wall buckling and the like makes a lot of sense, but would the risks get worse if you prevent the water from getting through by sealing it? Seems like whether you stop it on the exterior of concrete or the interior of it would make no difference if the pressure is not relieved by taking the water/backfill pressure away, but as I said, house has been standing for 70 years with no foundation problems and so I don't think that's an issue.

Fundamnetal question, and I understand your hostility to the salesman, but I am really curious as to whether an internal impermiable membrane that bonds to internal concrete surfaces can allow me to waterproof the house and finish the basement. If the water can't get through the floor, what happens to the water? What happens to the concrete that is under the product? Will the concrete erode? If it does, how long until it breaks down? Could this have an impact on the structural soundness of the home that doing nothing at all would not?

And short of either this internal drain system or digging up all the concrete and laying down a drainage system and gravel, is there anything else that can do the job of preventing water from coming through the floor.

Thanks very much for your time.

mvwood

04:35PM | 10/31/06
Member Since: 10/30/06
3 lifetime posts
I would also like to know from the sani sales guy if you have contractors who can apply this product properly for me in Toronto.

Not the kind of thing I am capable fo doing properly on my own.

thanks

SaniTred

05:36AM | 11/01/06
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
Mvwood

We do not have an applicator in Toronto, though most any do-it-yourselfer, painter, local handy man or contractor is more than capable of applying Sani-Tred materials. We recently received a reference letter from a 60 year old woman who waterproofed her basement all by herself. She did hire a so-called professional to waterproof her basement initially, but was mislead and left abandoned. She did win her lawsuit against them and is now another one of our success stories.

Reference:

http://www.sanitred.com/basement-waterproofing-references.htm

Dear Sani-Tred,

I am writing to tell you that I LOVE your products and your customer service. As a 60 year old woman, doing the work myself was physically challenging but the beauty is that it even I could do it. The products went on easily and the finished product looks beautiful. I learned that it is very important to follow instructions closely in order to get perfect waterproofing, but we now have a perfectly dry basement. Your customer service people were courteous and helpful--Sani-Tred went far beyond the ordinary to be helpful. I also want to express my gratitude for a non-toxic product that doesn't hurt either me or the environment. Please use my name as a local reference as I know that you are a rare company with a rare product! Thank you again,

What you are witnessing is common and just some traces of ground water. These suggestions of hacking up your floor are also common and will not guarantee anything when it’s all said and done.

This house has not had its walls buckle in, tree roots have not pushed in your walls, bugs evidently are not infesting your basement and the above conditions are not common as propaganda junkies whish you to believe. Concrete will not dissolve in the presence of water/moisture. What causes concrete to deteriorate is not the water/moisture itself, but allowing concrete to leak and weep water/moisture over a long period of time. this will leach out beneficial minerals from the concrete.

Anyone trying to dismiss the fact that water/moisture enters through concrete due to moisture vapor drive and negative hydrostatic pressure and calling it ‘a rare occurrence’ is truly uninformed or intentionally misleading.

I can tell you that the products come with detailed instruction RE: preparation, mixing and application. We always have people standing by to answer your questions. We don’t just ask you to take our word for it that the products perform; we also have Sample Packs to try for yourself and are 100% satisfaction guaranteed. Try, apply and abuse the products. You will become familiar with the materials themselves and how they are applied.


mvwood

09:29AM | 11/01/06
Member Since: 10/30/06
3 lifetime posts
thanks.

on the issue of application, the basement has been semi finished, and so I would have to take all the paint (and the waterproofing that was applied in the 40s) off the walls and floors as well as removing some plywood walls, plywood cupboards, and the like. There is also wood on the ground under the stairs, which will likely have to be removed too, which is definitely not a job for me considering the wood holds up the stairs. Then there is the sauna which would need to have all the wood removed and then replaced.

I am not the kind who can assemble thigns out of a box properly, nor am I particularly comfortable using a blowtorch to dry things out.

Problem I see with hiring a local handiman would be if he is not familiar with the product he will not warrant its proper application.

If, as you say, it will only fail if it is not applied properly, I end up in a situation where I am left exposed - no warranties from you, as you do not license your contractors and so could easly blame mis-application (which could of course be the actual cause) while the contractor, unfamiliar with the product, would (1) have no real idea whether the product will work and (2) lack the expertise to be comfortable guaranteeing his work, and the end result is that no one would be responsible if the product doesn't work for whatever reason.

Why do you not have more localized distribution and contractors who are licensed to apply the product professionally? Would seem like if the product works as well as is claimed, contractors would see the value in a licensing arrangment to be a certified installer. It is an extremely competitive market, after all.

Meanwhile, you would benefit from wider exposure and an ability to tap into the not-do-it-yourself market, which I suspect is far bigger than the do it yourself one.

Do you see any prospects of a proper distribution/application system being set up? Again, the reputational effects from having established reputable contractors endorse your product coupled with the increased exposure as an alternative to those who are looking to hire would surely have a positive effect on your business if the product works as well as claimed (seems nothing short of a miracle product considering what contractrors seem to currently say is required, and that is what allows companies to grow by factors of a hundred or more in 3 to 5 years)

On a completely different tact, would it make sense to put in a sump in a corner of the floor (remembering there is no gravel under the home but would put gravel around the sump) hooked up to the drain and then apply the SaniTred? from what I can see it is the internal perimiter drain system which is the most expensive component of the traditional system, and as I noted I don't have water coming in through the walls (well, I might, just none I can see or see traces of). Would this both help relieve the pressure and prevent any water coming in in any event? Or does the SaniTred make the sump completely redundant?


KingVolcano

10:05AM | 11/01/06
Member Since: 03/03/05
273 lifetime posts
After all this talk about the product, I decided to call SaniTred today. I conversed at length with Gabby, she was very informed on their products and was quite pleasant. I will be ordering a sample kit from them to test a small area on a basement wall. I am honestly looking forward to testing their product. If favorable, I will test it on a personal project or maybe one of my clients in the Boston area. There are a lot cement walled garages in this area. This type of application would be perfect for testing SaniTred. The real test is going to be in the Spring when we have a lot of flooding. I'll post my findings when I believe a fair assessment is reached.

coeng73

11:30AM | 05/29/07
Member Since: 05/28/07
1 lifetime posts
I was at a point where I was considering having Sanitred installed for a crack in my garage wall that is allow water to seep in during heavy rains. This is the only option that was reasonable for me since I can't justify spending thousands of dollars for the inconvenience of having to put a towel down to absorb the water. The repair job would $1100 (same price for urethane injection method) and would be done by a licensed Sanitred installer.

Three weeks later, I found mold on my garage wall. I scrubbed it off this weekend and am now considering expanding the Sanitred coverage area from just the crack to the entire wall that is below grade (my propery slopes from back to front). So my wall would be covered with Sanitred on a diagnal.

Then I got concerned about the walls cracking and buckling due to freezing in the winter and starting looking for negative results from using Sanitred when I came across this thread.

What are my other options? Its not that I don't want to spend money to have drains installed or have my exterior excavated its just that I simply can't afford it. One waterproofing company wanted 58K to excavate and waterproof from the outside. No way.

What about repairing the crack from the outside? Only half of the crack is below grade. It would be about a 4 foot dig. What kind of products can be applied to a crack from the outside?

I have since purchased a dehumidifier to eliminate the humidity which was causing the mold. I also moved my wooden closet away from the wall so there is no organic material that the mold can feed off.

What would you do? I'm desperate here.

guitarfixxer

04:20AM | 02/20/08
Member Since: 02/19/08
1 lifetime posts
I find it interesting to read how you can suggest STUPID things like tree roots and soil presure and wall bowing in etc....are you a NIMROD (I believe you called the Sani tred guy that!)No one even suggests any of those problems can be delt with Sani-Tred or any other waterproofing products. Assuming a person has no problems with "walls caving in" or "tree roots blowing through the wall" or "earth moving soil pressure" and all they have is a problem with ground water that seeps between the Footings, wall and floors (3 cold joints)SANI - TRED is the answer, assuming it is applied properly.

My parents built a home 55 years ago and the basement has leaked since day one (Fairly flat land and ground water is high)12 years ago I installed Sani-tred (after 3 company's had tried draining from the outside)because they told me it would take care of the problem....Guess what, no a drop of water since that day.....Thank you sani - tred!!!!!

LicensedWaterproofer

11:21PM | 02/20/08
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts
ha, people are full of crap.

first off, sani has UN-satisfactory BBB record due to unresolved customer complaints, ok. if you or anyone else wants their products...BUY them,go ahead.

Most leaks in basements are due to cracks,loose parging and other direct openings on the outside,block walls OFTEN have cracks on the exterior of wall and they do NOT show on interior,are NOT VISBLE!

LATERAL SOIL PRESSURE and sometimes roots, CAUSE MANY cracks,subsequent leaks due to these cracks, widening of cracks and can cause walls to bow in.

Here`s some reading/educational info/FACTS for ya, problem is people like YOU either think you know it all or don`t wanna LEARN, won`t read...thats your problem/incompetence

Amherst NY LATERAL SOIL PRESSURE,Foundation movement-Causative factors...Prepared by US ARMY CORPS of ENGINEERS http://www.amherst.ny.us/pdf/building/soilsstudy/TOASFS_section3.pdf

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/publications/marineclay.htm#2 scroll to BASEMENT WALLS...read MOST Succesful REPAIR METHOD and, what do THEY tell ya to backfill with

approx 50% of all homes in N America built on clay

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fail-Foundation-A2095.html Read what is often the biggest load/weight against a house/foundation, read COMPACTION,read about best BACKFILL etc

Understand anything? or you just full of it too?

6th para... http://www.dwightyoderbuilders.com/concrete.cfm

Some WILL have problems under bsmt floor,basement back ups.. http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?a=324782&z=2 SCROLL down to 'LOOKING for the CAUSE'

some will need an honest/exp`d plumber to snake storm trap-cleanout or, if they have a sump pit that has drain tiles empty into it, snake the tiles

bsmt back ups...

http://mkasmtp1.stlmsd.com/MSD/Outreach/basement_bkup.pdf

your not going to bs me, been around 30 years, try all ya like.

SaniTred

10:05AM | 03/13/08
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
I would first like to respond to LicensedWaterproofer.

You still fail to realize that not EVERYONE has drains beneath their floor to snake out. Most people do not wish to pay $14,000 or more for a drain system only to be left with a basement still susceptible to water, moisture, vapor, and problem radon.

Moisture at the very least is always present below grade.

Concrete is not waterproof, moisture-proof, or vapor tight.

All the drainage in the world will not dry up the earth under and/or surrounding ANY foundation.

ANY type of drainage, whether around the exterior or under the floor, will not stop moisture vapor drive throughout any portion of any basement floor.

Pumping water is not ‘waterproofing’ … it’s ‘water mitigation’.

Snaking out drains is not a ‘solution’ because it is not waterproofing. If you could provide a shred of evidence that water mitigation stops moisture vapor drive then you would be the first in history! That is an immoral sales tactic to take advantage of the uninformed and a lie when stated by people who know better.

If you wish to perpetuate these myths then I believe you’re underestimating your audience and insulting their intelligence. What people want is ‘bone dry’ and proven insurance that their basement will forever remain bone dry regardless of ANY circumstance. What people want is zero maintenance … not sump pits, dehumidifiers, spare pumps, battery backups, sheet goods, water alarms, excavation, plumbers, and certainly not a single drop of water after they have exhausted all mitigation methods listed above. People do not want to mitigate … they want to eliminate.

As I mentioned long ago … drainage/hydrostatic relief does have its uses and that has always been a fact, but any hydrostatic relief in any situation does NOT waterproof anything. Boats have bilge pumps, but the pump does not waterproof the hull, it merely pumps water out of the bilge. No one would ever encourage water to enter their hull just to pump it back out again.

SaniTred

12:03PM | 03/13/08
Member Since: 08/08/06
15 lifetime posts
mvwood,

One simple way to identify ‘moisture vapor drive’ is to lay a flat rubber mat on the floor and leave it there for a while … a few days or whatever. If you pull up the mat and find that the concrete is a darker under the mat then you’ve personally witnessed the moisture that weeps through concrete (moisture vapor drive). Moisture vapor drive is more powerful than you would believe. This moisture pushes paints off of the floor causing bubbling, peeling, delamination, etc… If carpet were laid directly over a floor that is not permanently sealed then mold is likely to grow.

The guy who quoted you is obviously not solving the problem directly; he will attempt to ‘mitigate’ the water. Sheet goods are used as an attempt to isolate the basement’s contents from the water/moisture.

I would like to take this opportunity to clarify another scare tactic that is too often used with regards to ‘wall buckling pressure’. Your basement has NEVER had any hydrostatic relief (from what you stated). The real question to ask yourself is “what is the most water anyone has ever witnessed in my basement”? If your basement has a few damp areas, a couple leaking cracks, and a few puddles on the floor then how much water entered your basement on that occasion? If the answer is approx 5-10 gallons of total water … then I have to ask, “what pressure”? Sani-Tred products will absolutely hold out 5-10 gallons of water … no problem and there’s no pressure to speak of.

What if your basemen typically floods 2 INCHES DEEP every time it rains. No problem … where’s this wall buckling, foundation collapsing, floor cracking pressure? Sani-Tred will hold out more than 2” of water without question.

OK, the flip-side to this coin is what if your basement FLOODS 5’ – 6’ deep every time it rains? The answer is, you’ve got worse problems than waterproofing. Yes, Sani-Tred products WILL permanently waterproof even this basement, but you must first get rid of all this standing water because your basement is sitting in the middle of a swamp. Yes, in this circumstance you ALWAYS HAVE had a massive amount of water pressure against this flooded foundation. No one in their right mind would say “I wouldn’t worry about all about this high water table”. Sani-Tred products will withstand much more negative hydrostatic pressure than can possibly occur in any basement … even if you picked your house up and dropped it into a lake (not exaggerating either).

If your question is … “would a typical, residential, Sani-Tred waterproofed foundation that has been submerged 8’ deep into a lake be fine forever … structurally”? The honest answer is and always has been NO. No one in their right mind would ever build a foundation in such an aquatic environment without first constructing the foundation to meet the specifications for such an environment … for obvious reasons.

“What happens to the water”? The honest answer is ‘where it always has just not in your basement’. Keep in mind just how much water were talking about too … remember that tiny amount of leakage you witness? You have more water flushing down the toilet than during the hardest rain. Now think about the question again “what happens to the water”? Here’s a good question, where does the water go that is pumped out of a sump? It gets pumped out of the home and simply goes right back to where it came from … the ground. Sealed or not you will have the same amount of water in the ground as you always have. Now some people have the luxury of living up on a big hill and the water can be pumped or drained far away from the home, but this is not the majority.

Water/moisture goes wherever it can. Water follows the path of least resistance. At the moment the least rout of resistance is where it is currently leaking into your basement. Once permanently sealed out, this water/moisture will never enter again. Your foundation will be sitting just as it always has for nearly 70 years and will likely continue to stand for another 70 … only bone dry.

Here’s a few more myths ~ water dissolves concrete ~ concrete needs to breath :) ~ the presence of water/moisture erodes concrete. The presence of water/moisture never hurt concrete. If concrete dissolved in the presence of water/moisture then foundations, bridges, highways, underwater tunnels, pilings, pier columns, and dams would never be made of concrete. Concrete does not need to breathe. If that was a fact then how is your foundation footing expected to breathe :) ? What does hurt concrete is water/moisture being allowed to perpetually travel completely through it. This DOES erode minerals out of the concrete. The depletion of these minerals DOES cause the concrete to loose integrity over a long period of time. You can actually see these minerals in the form of efflorescence. Efflorescence is water/moisture that traveled completely through the concrete, evaporates on the other side, and what is left is a mineral buildup (efflorescence). Efflorescence can also be comprised of some minerals that were originally in the ground water/moisture too.

Unfortunately the only way to stop 100% of all water, moisture, vapor, and problem radon from the exterior of the foundation is a 1 piece seamless liner under and around the home. This is not practical of course. Water mitigation may stop a flood by pumping water, but can never guarantee to stop moisture vapor drive. Exterior coatings obviously do not solve any floor problem and will never stop water from coming through where the wall meets the floor. Sheet materials unfortunately do not solve the problem as they will have seams and doesn’t stop the water/moisture. Dehumidifiers only pull moisture out of the air (which is water that has already evaporated). One thing that is a fact is that all of the above is ‘water mitigation’.

Once Sani-Tred has been applied it can never bubble, chip, peel, crack, delaminate, or leak for the life of the structure. This link will explain why: http://www.sanitred.com/waterproofing-products-qualities.htm Once applied, the 1st coat of PermaFlex saturates into the concrete then cures to become as tough as a truck tire. All Sani-Tred products molecularly weld to each other. Now you seal any joints, seams, cracks, and holes using LRB/TAV mixture (Liquid Rubber Base, Thickening Activator). This mixture has 600% elongation and will molecularly weld to the prime coat that is embedded inside the concrete. To finish things off you apply 1 coat of PermaFlex. This coat will molecularly weld to all previous applications to create a 100% seamless, 100% waterproof basement, and all of the materials have 600% elongation. It is impossible to remove these materials without removing the surface of the concrete with it. This is not paint and certainly not temporary or superficial in any way.

LicensedWaterproofer

01:13AM | 03/14/08
Member Since: 03/05/04
301 lifetime posts
number one, according to BBB you have UN-satisfactory record due to unresolved customer complaint(s).

so don`t come on ANY board and yap about ethics or expertise on THIS subject to me.Your BBB 'classification' is 'Manufacturers & Producers'.

..of products. Hardly defines being any sort of expert in-on THIS subject.Doesn`t say Basement waterproofing,Foundation repair. I don`t see anything,not one word on-about you`ve been repairing basements for 20-30+ years

Maybe you should take care of those homeowner complaints before professing how good you are etc.

You do indeed have false,misleading claims on your site, sure do, gee,IND Atty Gen. i guess is too busy with other things right now.

Are YOU trying to tell the WORLD,anyone on any of these sites you post that...YOU know/understand MORE than all those other links i`ve posted,and more than my 30 years?

You know more than 'Yoder'..'Army Corps of Eng'...Fairfax Couty'...'Vila'...'EOF Foundations' etc etc etc???????? HUH? lolol

You have the answers and we do not?

BetterWay

11:17AM | 04/07/08
Member Since: 04/06/08
3 lifetime posts
As a independent contractor I have been using the Sanitred products for 6 years now and have succesfully sealed over 100 homes and condos with their products and have had ZERO dissatisfied customers. Some of these homes had severe leakage and probably about 70% of my waterproofing is the cold seam ( floor/wall ) .

As is often the case some "professionals" in the business dismiss the product because they haven't tried it and lump it into the catagory of a "surface sealent".

Keep an open mind and try the product before you bad mouth it.

KingVolcano

05:50AM | 04/08/08
Member Since: 03/03/05
273 lifetime posts
The problem usually is not the product, it is application error or improper use of a product. Unfortunately, once the product is in the hands of applicator, the manufacturer cannot supervise the job.

I'm not saying Sanitred is good or bad.

Sanitred will only be as good as the situation will allow under the parameters of how the product was engineered.

However, I have to state that very few manufacturers stand behind their product. Most will put blame on the applicator and simply walk away.

I do not agree with everything stated by Mr. Sanitred. If I were him, I would stay away from stating definatives. Also, education on the different types of concrete would be advised before you compare foundation concrete to concrete used for bridges. The more I read your post, the less I have faith in your product. You are seting yourself up for failure when you mke people think it is fail-safe.

Now, we have BetterWay backing up the Sanitred claim. How much weight can be put into a claim made by a person that was either prompted by Sanitred to post here, or it is Sanitred. Unfortunately it is hard to confirm any statement made here. As a contractor, I take photographs at every job site. If BetterWay can provide the moderator with a business website along with proof, Cellarwater can confirm or deny his post.

I'd like to say we can protect people from manufacturers, but most of the time with DYI'ers, it's protecting them from themselves.

LAST STATEMENT

DYI'ers - If you decide to buy SaniTred, make sure you are willing to accept the fact it may not work for your situation.

BetterWay

10:59AM | 04/08/08
Member Since: 04/06/08
3 lifetime posts
My company is Better Way Home Solutions.

I'm based in So NH.

I'm registered with the state, in the yellow pages and my phone is 603-537-2345.

Call me if you doubt it!

Bob Matson

BetterWay

09:56AM | 04/09/08
Member Since: 04/06/08
3 lifetime posts
In addition please feel free to check BBB for ANY complaints against my company.

sweet11395

03:19PM | 08/24/08
Member Since: 08/28/03
9 lifetime posts
I've also had two friends use Sanitred and they have been water/moisture free for years.....one had a spring on is property...can you tell me licensed waterproofer how your exterior water proofing can guarantee a solution...water will come up from underneath the floor and infiltrate via the cold joint....it is only common sense to all that a uniform MONOLITHIC coating on the inside will prevent any infiltration into the LIVING area...sure water may infiltrate into the hollow block between the earth and the Sanitred but not into the LIVING area...it is the reverse fish bowl effect!!!

....if a tree root comprimises the foundation then your exterior coating will fail first and Sanitrad second....

you keep claiming BBB complaints why not give us your company so we can check on your complaints?? HUH??? put your money where your mouth is....

Again two of my friends have used in in challenging situations and are 100% completely water/moisture free and I used it on my last house and was moisture free....going to strip the unknown coating (drylock?) on two of my four walls and use Sanitred to stop "sweating"...more than happy to send you pictures, documents, independent auditors as to effectiveness....I can't believe I waster time listening to your dribble as as scientist by trade the Sanitred system not only makes sense but has been proven to me several times over!!!....I'd really like to see how your exterior water proofing system would stop a spring from infiltrating the cold joint...care to explain that??? never mind...the answer is IT WON'T!!!!!

theFoundationExpert

07:48PM | 02/22/09
Member Since: 02/21/09
1 lifetime posts
With all due respect, you are both missing the boat! Or the real issue. Water is not the problem, never was. Water is water. It is the acid within the water that corrupts cement and products with cement. It is the acid which reacts with the alkalines, lime and calcium, creating a chemical process that neutralizes both.

Although the water is the catalyst, it is the acid that presents the true danger. let's not forget that the acid water as it weakens the cement, the blocks, the mortar joints, still remains a force of pressure which can then topple wall, structurally. All the Sani-Tred product in the world can't stop that!

On the flip side, short of excavating and waterproofing the entire foundation wall, moisture will seep in.

I am actually going to try a combination of both - a sub-floor pressure relief system, including the all important weep holes for the blocks, and then after I install the miradrain, with a radon seal, with then finish the walls and floor with Sani-Tred, for a finished look which should work - BUT ONLY AFTER I install a water-management system.

I agree with the 30 year waterproofer - you're not stopping the water from coming in - you're only stopping it from coming into the basement interior.

If you don't have a drain system either outside or inside, you won't stop hydrostatic pressure from the outside. It's amazing, mr. Sani-Tred that here in Maryland and Virginia, that sub-floor drain tile and a sump pump are New Residential Building Code. You can't build or sell a new home without one installed, although most builders will install them incorrectly and they won't work after 2-5 years, sometimes if they're lucky, they'll fail after 10 years.

But, nowhere is Sani-Tred building code. It's a negative side application - negative usually denoting wrong - not correct. Positive, negative, right, wrong. Lets be positive about the negative - I've been looking for a negative side application, because regardless of the fact that you CAN waterproof from the outside, that you can only waterproof from the outside, according to all the engineering textbooks sitting on my shelf, I will happily try Sani-Tred for all the homeowners who can't afford excavation and true or positive waterproofing.

So I will install the drain tile, in round washed gravel, under the floor slab, next to the footing, in a wide 18 inch trench, without fabric and soil filters which clog, with weep holes, sloping the trenches, installing extra pumps for anything over 100 linear feet, running Miradrain 2000R up the wall approximately 2-3 inches to allow the wall to drain out. And then seal the walls with your product. At least I will give it a shot. Might work.

mcdonam0

09:58PM | 10/25/09
Member Since: 10/25/09
1 lifetime posts
I am a Licensed Residential Builder and I have built homes and remodeled even more. I have used sani-tred in the past and always been happy with it. Some customers do not want to pay "extra" for this type of product when they finish their basement. They would rather free up money to make their finished basement really nice. Customers that I have installed Sani-tred for have never called me back to repair leaks. I have had people call back due to musty smell months to years later when sani-tred was not installed. For those people I have to refresh their memory about our talks prior to the start of the job and most want to kick themselves or possibly me for not pressuring them more to put this in their house. Will sani-tred work in all instances..absolutely not. For the average basement it is awesome and a great insurance policy against future problems. Any builder/contractor can help you to do some simple things outside your home to shed water better. If your going to get into excavation around the basement walls it is going to get costly fast. I would certainly try this product long before I put down serious money on major construction to any home I own. The basement in my home was always bone dry because I did not skimp when I built it and I made sure everything was done correctly. Even so, before I started to finish my basement I installed sani-tred. I have a fairly large home and the walkout basement is 2200 sq ft alone. It cost about $3,000 do install this on my floors and walls of my basement. A small price in comparison to the rest of the finished basement. And yes, my basement is bone dry, no musty odor. This product is quite good. It would be better if it were a little cheaper and could fit into more peoples budgets, but I guess you get what you pay for. BTW, don't bother with Dry-Lock and products like that. You will just have to pay (or use your sweat equity) to have them removed when they fail.

ramseur78

05:54AM | 11/18/09
Member Since: 11/17/09
1 lifetime posts
Ok, my situation is I have a townhouse built in 82 which has shown some water seepage. I have a finished basement and I can see signs of moisture were the wall meets the floor. There is moldy drywall that I discovered when cutting a small piece out of the wall near the floor. The worst areas I can tell are adjacent to the neighbor who we share a wall. Outside excavation is not an option. There is currently an internal french drain system in place which seems to have one of the pipes clogged (I'm guessing because it has never had water come out while the other 2 run pretty constant. The piping is the black corrugated kind which I've been told you can't snake because it will tear up the pipe, this makes since. I've looked into doing a totally new internal system very similar to the one described two posts ago. I've decided to wait until I can get behind the walls and see exactly what's going on. Ok, my question is if external excavation is out of the question, mainly because it does not make financial sense to do that to a $130 town house, + I sure can't excavate my neighbor's house, could a sealant like sanitred be an answer. I'm keeping and internal water management system as a last resort, I don't like the idea of guys coming in with jackhammers, digging up my basement floor, and drilling weep holes into my foundation. I'm going to exhaust every avenue first before I go this route. There have been a few posts here asking for specific feedback for their situation unfortunately I did not see them addressed. I would appreciate any constructive feedback, not just bashing other methods/products. Thanks.

itsreallyconcrete

10:53AM | 12/19/09
Member Since: 05/10/08
6 lifetime posts
don't expect it to be a silver bullet',,, while, under most circumstances, it will perform satisfactorily as negative side waterproofing, be aware the wtr's JUST on the other side of the -tred.

any damage occurring will be hidden from view TIL the dam breaks,,, head pressure's very important w/-tred, too.

itsreallyconcrete.com

decorative conc artisan

conc repairs


DeniseC541

04:08PM | 09/14/10
Member Since: 09/13/10
1 lifetime posts
Mrfoundationexpert< It has been over a year I think, since you stated that you would use both types of foundation protection/waterproofing. I am very excited to find out what the results were. PLEASE post them.

thank you.

mallenbiker

09:37PM | 10/21/10
Member Since: 10/21/10
1 lifetime posts
I would also be interested in hearing results. I have a older building in SoCal built on a hill with one wall of bottom story against dirt. Significant water damage over the years and cost of sealing from outside would be prohibitive and disruptive to tenants.

Sanitred dealers are all back east so I would be ordering this for my contractor directly.

Appreciate any users feedback.

David1245

02:11PM | 06/13/11
Member Since: 06/13/11
5 lifetime posts
BUYER BEWARE: SANI-TRED charges a 30% restocking fee for return products which have not been opened. Are they IDIOTS. Oh wait that's for the warehouse guy to take the "un-opened" product out of the box give it a once over and put it back on the shelf? Right off the bat 30% of the purchase price is gone and you have to return the product yourself so you could be in over your head. So your running cost to return is about 35-40% almost 1/2 of what you paid for if you return?. SANI-TRED is over rated and over priced. For $100.00 a gallon of there “PRV” I could buy a 5 gallon drum of Drylock and go further for less. It’s a rip off cover in the own stick goop.

David1245

02:11PM | 06/13/11
Member Since: 06/13/11
5 lifetime posts
BUYER BEWARE: SANI-TRED charges a 30% restocking fee for return products which have not been opened. Are they IDIOTS. Oh wait that's for the warehouse guy to take the "un-opened" product out of the box give it a once over and put it back on the shelf? Right off the bat 30% of the purchase price is gone and you have to return the product yourself so you could be in over your head. So your running cost to return is about 35-40% almost 1/2 of what you paid for if you return?. SANI-TRED is over rated and over priced. For $100.00 a gallon of there “PRV” I could buy a 5 gallon drum of Drylock and go further for less. It’s a rip off cover in the own stick goop.

David1245

02:11PM | 06/13/11
Member Since: 06/13/11
5 lifetime posts
BUYER BEWARE: SANI-TRED charges a 30% restocking fee for return products which have not been opened. Are they IDIOTS. Oh wait that's for the warehouse guy to take the "un-opened" product out of the box give it a once over and put it back on the shelf? Right off the bat 30% of the purchase price is gone and you have to return the product yourself so you could be in over your head. So your running cost to return is about 35-40% almost 1/2 of what you paid for if you return?. SANI-TRED is over rated and over priced. For $100.00 a gallon of there “PRV” I could buy a 5 gallon drum of Drylock and go further for less. It’s a rip off cover in the own stick goop.

David1245

02:12PM | 06/13/11
Member Since: 06/13/11
5 lifetime posts
BUYER BEWARE: SANI-TRED charges a 30% restocking fee for return products which have not been opened. Are they IDIOTS. Oh wait that's for the warehouse guy to take the "un-opened" product out of the box give it a once over and put it back on the shelf? Right off the bat 30% of the purchase price is gone and you have to return the product yourself so you could be in over your head. So your running cost to return is about 35-40% almost 1/2 of what you paid for if you return?. SANI-TRED is over rated and over priced. For $100.00 a gallon of there “PRV” I could buy a 5 gallon drum of Drylock and go further for less. It’s a rip off cover in the own stick goop.

David1245

02:12PM | 06/13/11
Member Since: 06/13/11
5 lifetime posts
BUYER BEWARE: SANI-TRED charges a 30% restocking fee for return products which have not been opened. Are they IDIOTS. Oh wait that's for the warehouse guy to take the "un-opened" product out of the box give it a once over and put it back on the shelf? Right off the bat 30% of the purchase price is gone and you have to return the product yourself so you could be in over your head. So your running cost to return is about 35-40% almost 1/2 of what you paid for if you return?. SANI-TRED is over rated and over priced. For $100.00 a gallon of there “PRV” I could buy a 5 gallon drum of Drylock and go further for less. It’s a rip off cover in the own stick goop.

Kevin Sinyerd

10:56AM | 10/18/11
Member Since: 10/18/11
4 lifetime posts
Well I know these posts are old but BUDDY you need to give up....you are so freaking wrong!!!!! I have nothing to do with Sani Tred but I did take a chance and invested $2500.00 including shipping and Customs dues(because of UPS - the bastards)and I will tell you from experiance, IF you prepare the wall / floor properly ....dry, wax & oil etc removed......
(I mean properly!!!)this is by far the very BEST waterproofing compound available today. I mean this stuff is unbeleivable good. If someone doubts hat I say and want to talk about it send me your number...

regards
Kevin

PS.....infact I am starting a basement waterproofing bussiness using only Sani tred products!

Kevin Sinyerd

12:14PM | 10/18/11
Member Since: 10/18/11
4 lifetime posts
yah!!! great response. I love sanitred!!! works for me....and will also work for my future customers as well:).

regards
Kevin

Ill get my pics up soon..

Kevin Sinyerd

12:16PM | 10/18/11
Member Since: 10/18/11
4 lifetime posts
yes ...get some and use it and you will be happy....just make sure you do the proper prep work and mix properly and you will be extreamly happy you did....

Kevin

Stephanies

02:45AM | 10/19/11
Member Since: 07/07/11
8 lifetime posts
Sani-TRED has developed a new way to repair the concrete and the repair of the basement using a liquid rubber coating.

Petech

08:02PM | 02/04/12
Member Since: 02/04/12
1 lifetime posts
We used Sani-Tred in our basement with great success. About four years ago we started getting seepage through some of the poured concrete walls in our finished basement whenever it rained hard and long. I had to tear out the finished sheetrock and of course the drop ceiling came down with them – what a mess and a lot of work. Eventually the leaking got so bad that there was one spot where it looked like a drinking fountain coming through the wall! After a lot of research we decided to try to fix it with Sani-Tred. Anyone who says they can waterproof a basement from the outside is lying. You cannot get under the floor. You cannot get rid of the water in saturated soil if the storm sewers can’t handle the flow. It really is that simple. Drilling holes to let more water in and adding a sump pump seemed like a really bad idea; why would I want to let more water into the basement? So, we spent about $1200 on Sani-Tred Permaflex and LRB/TAV. We also bought one of those propane tank flame throwers to dry the walls. The preparation is key to success with this product. Do not try to take short cuts, and if you do, and it doesn’t work, don’t come back here and blame the product. It is a lot of work. We applied the Permaflex with a roller after trimming around windows and corners with a brush, just like you would if you were painting. It is thick and messy and a lot of work. Then we used the LRB/TAV in the corners, on any cracks, and at the floor/wall seam (tell me again how you seal that seam from the outside – you can’t). Then another coating of Permaflex over everything. We did all the walls and the entire floor. That is the only way to make sure the leak won’t just move to a different spot. The next time we had a really heavy rain, we noticed 2 or 3 pinhole leaks. After closer inspection, we noticed that the pinholes were everywhere. So, we applied another coating paying special attention to the pinholes. Eventually we got it all covered with no more pinholes anywhere. The basement has been completely dry ever since. That was over three years ago. I am going to finish the basement with sheetrock, moulding, and carpet again this spring. I waited 3 years just to make sure the leaks wouldn’t come back. Honestly, I am amazed at how well this product worked. I even thought about going into the basement waterproofing business, because it is so amazing, until I remembered how much work it was to use this product correctly! We used the gray color but we didn’t use any Xylene to thin it, just for cleanup. Without the xylene there was no odor while applying the product and there has been no odor of any kind since. Maybe it is the xylene that is causing that “cat urine smell” people are writing about? We did have to clean off the yellowish oil that appears about a week or so after the stuff cures, but never again after that. I am shocked at the vitriol you see aimed at this product on some websites. Almost all of the naysayers make their living trying to waterproof basements from the outside and almost none of them have ever actually used this product, but they hate it. I wonder why? If you prepare the walls and floor the way Sani-Tred says you have to, rather than trying to take shortcuts, and if you apply multiple coats to the entire basement – again, the way Sani-Tred says to do it – then this product will work. It did for us. But it is a lot of manual labor. If you try to take shortcuts or only do a partial job, you will probably get bad results, but don’t blame the product. I hope this info helps someone do it right like my wife and I did.

BV000303

07:20PM | 02/01/13
I used sani tred 7 years ago. Best thing I ever did. Not one drop of water has come into my basement since. When contractors come over they always ask what I used. It's amazing stuff.

BV000849

11:29AM | 04/18/13
This product is AWESOME!!!! A friend of mine recommended it to me and I fixed all the cracks right up to where the foundation begins. I even had a hairline crack at the bottom of the stairs in my basement. I used Sanitred and no more water or wet floor. I recommended it to another friend of mine and he too stopped the water coming in his house that he had been battling for a while. I saved myself hundreds of dollars. I applied sanitred in 2009 and we are currently going through another major flooding in my town and I have a dry basement.

BV001277

01:03PM | 06/10/13
Of course diverting water from the outside is the ideal way to go. Sloping the ground away from the foundations, adding proper gutters etc can help tremendously. I've done all that and more. However every home on my block has problems with water. Apparently a stream was partially diverted, partially backfilled following the backyards down the block. Water comes through the floor not the walls. I followed all the guidelines that Sani Tred suggested down to the letter. The product is no fun to use Be prepared to race around like a mad man trying to get the work done before the product solidifies. The results are fantastic. There hasn't been a drop of water much less moisture in the basement for years (had as much as 2 inches down there during a wet spring). I've never seen anything that comes close!

BV001320

10:07PM | 06/13/13
I have used the Sanitred Products over 10 times on basements and their products do what they say they will do if the proper prep. work is done first.

BV001528

08:42AM | 07/10/13
I live in an 1882 victorian with a stone block and rubble foundation and porous concrete floor. for twenty years humidity and seepage was problematic and no basement paint worked. I tried Sanitred on a patch to test it and followed their extensive instructions for surface prep. Worked like a charm. Have now done the entire floor. In my case grinding with a vacuum attachment to remove paint and get a clean surface and then torching to spot dry worked the best. The product works like a charm so long as you make the effort with the surface prep. Very happy with the results.

BV001732

12:34PM | 08/02/13
I'm a licensed builder and certified municipal home inspector. I built my own home and did all of the right things when I built it- I have interior and exterior drain tiles, waterproof exterior membrane, and two sump pumps. I have never had a leak through the walls. But just like Sanitred's website advertises, the water would seep in through cracks in the floor and particularly at the slab/wall joint. With my experience in other water-proofing products, I was skeptical, but I wanted to test it myself. So I bought the 1 qt sample kit. Purposely, I did only a mediocre job of prepping the surface - I only lightly hit the wall/floor with a wire brush and vacuum, however I made sure it was dry. I then applied Sanitred to the absolute worst spot in my basement and also painted some on a sheet of glass and poured the LRB into a solo cup. The product worked exactly as advertised. The Permaflex that was painted on the glass, came off in one clean sheet and was flexible as advertised. The LRB in the cup was exactly as advertised like a hard rubber ball. The product that was applied to the wall/floor adhered beautifully and completely stopped the problem in that section. Plus, the product adhered to the wall/floor so well that I took a pressure sprayer to it to see if it would come off - it didn't, it adhered excellently. A few months later and several heavy downpours later, the product still performed perfectly. Being encouraged for the first time in years, I applied it to the rest of the basement. Hands down this product works as advertised. Follow the installation instructions, do the proper prep, and you will be very happy with the results. Anyone that claims the product doesn't work either didn't properly prep as directed or never tried the product. The product works exactly as advertised.

BV001928

12:18AM | 08/27/13
Sanitred leaves a horrible smell in your home, the company is no help in solving the problem. I have been dealing with a smell that has not gone away after several years... and when I contact them (several times) they act as if they have neer heard of this problem... but a quick google search using the words sanitred cat pee smell will give you plenty of people with this complaint. wish I had never used this product.. very dishonest company.

Alvi

12:31PM | 01/09/14
Member Since: 01/09/14
1 lifetime posts
Good day Everyone and Happy New Year to Ya'll!

I would just like to share that Sani-Tred is under a new management that offers friendly customer service.

We sell quality and complete Do-it-yourself waterproofing materials. Visit www.sanitred.com today and browse through our great products.

If you're not quite sure about San-Tred, why not try our Mini Sample Pack? It's Double Money Back Guarantee!

ss07

12:07AM | 01/22/14
Member Since: 01/21/14
1 lifetime posts
OK! well that was an interesting read. Let me sum up my experience on this subject. In order to have a dry basement you MUST keep water from penetrating the walls. You must also keep water from rising underneath the cement floor. Once these two things happen painting the interior is like painting the attic ceiling because the roof is leaking. It will not work! The pressure of the water pushing on the block will produce a white powder called efflorescence. Nothing will stick to a powder. Keep in mind that the efflorescence is pushed from the outside of the cement block to the interior surface of the wall where the paint would be trying to stay. All coatings come loose because the block deteriorates so there is nothing for the coating (interior paint) to adhere to. A proper drainage system will guide the ground water away from the foundation and exterior walls. The walls need to be waterproofed and cracks repaired(exterior)to prevent penetration of water, then that waterproofing should be covered with a non-biodegradable plastic to protect it from biodegrading in the future. ALSO you need to have an internal system to catch water that may rise from underneath the foundation. This is done by installing a pressure relief cylinder. It's like a sump pump crock only twice as deep into the ground and sitting into a gravel bed. Its perforated with holes to allow ground water to enter 4 feet before it reaches the cement floor. That water is then taken away with a pump. Interior drain tiles are installed around the interior perimeter that also direct water into the pressure relief cylinder. Once this is in place the walls and floors will remain dry and you can paint whatever you want on the walls. Be careful of the guy that wants to run his back hoe at your expense. A truly dry basement requires a multi step system. Hope this helps

BV017818

03:42PM | 10/29/18
For me the product was only self leveling when the temperature was over 70 degrees. Proceed at your own risk. The company does not have a satisfaction guarantee. I spent $400 and ended up with poor results. Might work better if you're a pro. But if you're a homeowner or DIYer, I would not recommend.


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