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tomz71ss

02:12PM | 11/22/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
ok, i dug out a few more feet towards the sump pump hole tonight when i got home, and it looks like i have some uphill plumbing, enough so that i can actually see the difference in height from the 't' to where i have ended digging. to go any further, i need to move my washer and dryer, so i figure i'll have the wife do all the wash tomorrow while i'm at work, and then move those and continue my digging when i get home.

i think once i establish an actual continual downhill grade, i should be in good shape, then it's just a matter of putting it back together. with some luck, i'll have more destruction, err, progress pictures tomorrow night.

thanks again,

t

tomz71ss

02:18PM | 11/22/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
getting back to the water entry itself, i think we have a high water table [no one on the road has an actual 'dry' basement], and part of the old erie canal system is across the road from the place as well. the ironic part of this, is that the wall with the problem [or atleast where the problem ended up] is more or less shielded from most of the surface water [rain, snow melt, etc.], anyway, will have more info tomorrow.

t

cellarwater

03:05PM | 11/22/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
I'm glad you;re making progress with that drain. I'm sure when you get done you'll be advising your neighbors on draining their basements. Also when it's time for a beer too... C.

tomz71ss

05:33AM | 12/04/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
well, got nothing done since my last post, but am having at it again today. the upside so far is the water isn't running down my floor anymore, most of it is getting to the sump. going to complete the dig towards the hole today, and dig out more of the stone/sediment along the entire run then formulate my plan of attack to get it back to normal. naturally, this time of year money is tight, so the actual final repair is going to have to wait a bit, but the main concern is getting the water where it needs to be and the hole along the wall isn't going to bother anyone. will probably put up a few more pic's later.

thanks again for all the help so far,

t

tomz71ss

09:51AM | 12/04/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
ok, well i managed to go the rest of the way to the sump hole today. after i uncovered the pipe i found it looked like a rollercoaster, and the very end of it was going uphill!! now who'n the hell runs pipe like this? i also found the end of the pipe [just before the 'up swing'] had a fair amount of sediment in it [1/2 plugged]. i figured at that point i'd remove the pipe alltogether and work on atleast getting the water going downhill. well, lo and behold, as soon as i pulled that section of pipe out, the water started moving to the sump hole. i also had to chip out some of the concrete around the edge of the sump hole where the pipe exited to help with the downhill flow.

the last section of pipe i just removed is much bigger in diameter then the 'up hill' pieces i already removed, and has large circular holes along it for the water to get in. i also found that on the pieces i removed prior to this have small 'slits' in the convolutions of the pipe to let the water in [previously they looked 'solid' to me].

so, here's where i'm at, i have 90% of this wall length dug up and 'de-piped', and now have a somewhat downhill path for the water to get to the sump hole. as i was looking at the mess i have created, i noticed that the majority of the sediment [more like muck] is located to the right of the cobbed in T [pretty much at the end of my initial dig in the first pic's], there is no where near as bad a silt condition from the T to the sump hole [going to the left in the pic's], sure, it's there, but not as bad. so do you think the sediment pile up was caused by the up hill flow from the T on, or could the pile up just be an additional problem i have to deal with? [i understand due to the nature of this whole water entry situation sediment is to be expected, but it's extreme at the one end].

now so far i'm into this project for @ $12, plus the joy of hacking the floor up, as mentioned before, i'll have to wait untill after the holidays to actually purchase repair materials, but in the mean time, i want to dig out the rest of the stone and muck and try to salvage some of the stone [might as well, no sense in carrying it up the stairs]. i usually don't like to start something without the items needed to finish the job, but due to nature of the problem, i kinda had to wing it to prevent more damage to the cellar.

ok, now if i continue to remove the stones along the length of the trench i now have, how do i go about figuring the pitch needed from one end to the other to insure good water flow? i'm sure it doesn't take much, but if i don't ask, i'll go overkill and have a drop you could ski on.

i'm also thinking it may work out that i have to wait to purchase materials so i can clean out the mess in the trench, and see what kind of sediment issue results from having a 'free flowing' water path.

sorry for the novel, here are the other pic's,

the end of that pipe goes into the T

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1070.JPG

just past the T on it's way to the sump hole

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1069.JPG

on to the sump

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1067.JPG

the sump hole

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1079.JPG

1/2 of the not so downhill journey

http://tbillstoys.homestead.com/files/110_1078.JPG

well, that's where i'm at for now. let me know what you think, and any ideas you have.

thanks again for the help so far, and i hope you're getting as big a laugh out of this as i am,

t


cellarwater

03:53PM | 12/04/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
Great to see the new pic's. Looks & sounds like the project is coming along nicely! Did you use the masonry saw for the floor cuts? They look nice & neat. You're probably visiting Santa right now [ I wonder if elves can set drains?....] I'llstop by soon! C.

carl21l

06:26PM | 12/04/04
Member Since: 03/21/04
171 lifetime posts
.25 inch per lineal foot should be right for you

JMHO

Carl

tomz71ss

05:11AM | 12/05/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
C, ya, for the last few feet i used a masonary blade. i used one for my initial cut when i first started this job, but then saw two pipes, so resulted to hammering it out, but i actually knew the general path of the pipe for the last part, and the floor was thicker as well. plus i needed to get the washer and dryer back in a useable position as well and didn't want to kill too much of the floor.

thanks again for the help so far folks, during the week i'm going to work on digging out the stone/muck and see how the water flows, and rig something up to clean the stone i take out. look for an update by next weekend [unless i find another suprise]

thanks,

t

cellarwater

06:44AM | 12/05/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
Tom, I just had a flash of inspiration. How about a 5 gallon plastic bucket, and drill a bunch of 1/4" to 3/8" holes through it. Put the dirty stone in it then wash it with a hose. The buckets can be bought if you don't have one. Let me know how you make out. C.

tomz71ss

09:20AM | 12/12/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
well, i did some digging in the trench. the 'upper end' [where i first started this project] seems to be pretty much mud, it's hard to tell if there is even much drain rock in it at this point. it only took a few inches or so to get the 'red' muck out in a stretch of 3-4' of the run, now it's more or less sandy mud with some larger rocks here and there. at this point i would guess new drain rock is in order for this part. further down the line, right around the 't' i found, the sediment is much less, and looks like i can clean the rock from that point on towards the sump hole, cause it's actually coming out as dirty rock, rather than mud. also, as i was digging away on the beginning end, i found a few 'gurglers', spots where water was actually coming in under the footer. the water that's coming in in these spots is clear, so i have to figure the actual red sediment is coming in further down the line [i.e. where my fuel tank is located, the corner of the basement], so i'm thinking after winter i need to move my tank and hack up more floor.

now, seeing as i have struck mud, how far down should i dig? the 'finished' floor level is a few inches higher than footer the wall is built on, and in one section, i am at what i think is the bottom of the footer, where the mud is, how far down from this point should i go?

i must admit, i'm a bit overwhelmed at times as i look at this project, but also know if i keep at it, little by little i'll get it straightened out. i have finaly established a decent flow to the sump, so there is no more back-up/floor leakage, but in doing so i realise that i am also going to have to lower the sump hole as previously suggested because as things are now, the level that the water enters the hole coincides with the heigth of water needed to turn on the pump [submersible with a 'floating' on/off switch]. as previously suggested, lowering this area can only help in the long run.

i also noticed yesterday that i have an outdoor issue as well, which also goes along with some advice offered earlier. as you look at the front of my house, the wall i'm working near would be on your right, about six feet from the corner is a concrete 'apron' for a set of pre-cast steps, both of which are tilted, and butt up against the house/cellar wall. after some rain/snow, i had standing water against the cellar wall, so come spring time this will have to be addressed to cut down on water intrusion. the steps and pad in front of it are 'linked' to a narrow sidewalk type thing that end at my driveway, then runs along the driveway for maybe 20'. i'm thinking that since the driveway drains quite well [paved, and water runs to the end and into our 'ditch'], i'll hack out the steps/sidewalk, and re-pour the walk with an angle so it sends the water down the driveway. i was thinking of hanging rain gutters, but due to the amount of snow that builds up on this side of the house roof [wind blows from the back of the house, so the rear is clear usually] and the inevitable ice build up, i figure they'd get ripped off. but that is another project all together.

sorry to ramble on, but i thought i'd give an update on my progress so far, and what i found.

any further advice is much appreciated.

thanks again,

t

cellarwater

02:56PM | 12/12/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
The crushed rock can be bought in bags in garden shop or you-know-hooseohs. Get the new 4inch 10 foot lenghths of swiss pipe there too. Forget that coily black stuff[like what was pulled out] it's tough to hold a grade with it. dig 4 inches below the bottom of the pipe all the way across the trench. Drop in the stone,level it place the pipe holes down on the stone, fill with stone to the top of the pipe leave 2 inches for cement. Make sure the pipe has a gradual grade up 1/8 inch per foot or so. Watch that the sump pump is clear of silt or it will clog, Does the other stand up pump work? Make sure in case you need it. C. [time for a beer! ;)]

tomz71ss

12:38PM | 12/13/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
ya, that other pump works, but as we drain the washer in that spot, the force of the washer water going into the hole used to mess up the float level all the time, so i went with the submersible with the 'floating' switch, this has worked out very well so far [as far as keeping the actual sump hole draining good].

looks like i'll keep digging along my trench, and after the holidays get some new pipe and rocks.

thanks again for all the help so far,

t

cellarwater

12:54PM | 12/13/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
Ask Santa for the stone & pipe, or a gift card : ) C.

tomz71ss

12:51PM | 12/14/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
hahahahaha......or should that be hohohohoh?

tomz71ss

01:13PM | 12/28/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
haven't done much since my last post, but, the water is now flowing nicely to the hole, and things are drying out [yippie].

i figure in another weeks time i'll have it all dug out and ready for materials.

just thought i'd post something so you guys knew i haven't fallen off the map [or drown in the cellar, haha].

look for some news in a week or so [with pic's].

thanks again for all the help so far,

t

cellarwater

02:06PM | 12/29/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
I hope that you had a good Christmas!! It's too bad there's no icon with Santa or Rudolph or something. How was the egg nog? I was beginning to miss your basement saga! I'll be looking foward to more posts. It's good to know that the problem is getting solved. I'll check back. C.

tomz71ss

02:21PM | 12/30/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
if you miss my cellar saga, you need to get out more, hahaha....

j/k, ya, the holidays were good, hope yours were as well.

as soon as i have some new developments, i'll post them.

thanks again C, it's been nice to have some help on this, and if you ever find yourself in central NY, look me up, we'll have a beer or two, and look at my neighbors wet cellars [big wink here].

t

cellarwater

03:48PM | 12/30/04
Member Since: 12/09/03
175 lifetime posts
I like this site! I'm usually out in the summer, the days are short & we got snowed on 3 days ago. Definitely hook up if I get out your way. How far are you from the thruway? C.

tomz71ss

04:16AM | 12/31/04
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
i'm about 10 minutes [if that] from the canastota/oneida exit, i think it's exit 33.

tomz71ss

10:38AM | 01/11/05
Member Since: 11/13/04
90 lifetime posts
ok, don't get excited, i haven't done anymore yet due to other things going on, BUT, i'm happy to say the 'water level' in the trench is now remaining constant- as in making it to the sump hole [we've had a bit of moisture in the form of rain/snow-melt]. i hope to be back at it soon and get it 'buttoned up'.

that and i wanted to add something here so i don't lose track of where this went...........

t
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